Did Zhenge He Discover America
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Zioneer
Banned
I'm guessing that he's referring to the article that was put out a few years ago, about the Chinese claim that the explorer Zhenge He "discovered" America even before the Vikings did.
The Chinese government seems to want that to be true, as a bit of prestige for their nation. So I'm guessing that the OP is wondering if any of us believe it.
The Chinese government seems to want that to be true, as a bit of prestige for their nation. So I'm guessing that the OP is wondering if any of us believe it.
Zheng He was an admiral of the Ming Dynasty (1300s-1600s), where as the Vikings landed in America around 1000. The Vikings landed during the Song Dynasty (10th to 13th Century).
Riain
Banned
There is sufficient evidence of ZH's voyages to give a decent account of them. He went into the Indian Ocean, much like Vasco De Gama from the other way. He did not discover America.
That said, I'm sure many Asian seamen 'discovered America', if Bristol fishermen can dry their catch onshore in the 1480s then there is no reason why a Chinse ship couldn't go the the west coast.
That said, I'm sure many Asian seamen 'discovered America', if Bristol fishermen can dry their catch onshore in the 1480s then there is no reason why a Chinse ship couldn't go the the west coast.
I Blame Communism
Banned
Innocent until proven guilty. There is no evidence for, and, I believe, some against (diseases?). He could of, logistically speaking, but that doesn't mean he did.
Err, Gavin Menzies is a retired Royal Navy officer, not a Chinese writer. While the Chinese government likes to raise awareness of Zheng He, they are no fans of Menzies' theories. In fact his strongest critics are Chinese historians. You see, the Chinese don't like amateur foreign historians re-writing their history.
Zioneer
Banned
Sorry then, my bad. I actually only remembered Zhenge He from an old article in the newspaper, and I didn't remember who wrote about him.
My father loves this guy - always sends me his email newsletters, the latest of which is pasted below. There seems to be a strong desire amongst some people to believe that contact occured, no matter what, e.g the lost Celt tribes in New Zealand myth
A few months back we were sent an interesting paper by John H. Ruskamp and John A. Ruskamp Jr. They had written it completely independently of our research, and were surprised to find others in agreement with their theory. In this study the elements of an ancient petroglyph found in the Northwestern Mojave Desert are
compared with two similar Native American glyphs located hundreds of miles apart in Utah. All three of these glyphs are collectively compared with the modern form of the Chinese ideograph for a boat, Zhou. In addition, two other glyphs that resemble an older form of the Zhou ideograph are considered. The report establishes the proper interpretation of all five of these petroglyphs as depictions of a boat.
A few months back we were sent an interesting paper by John H. Ruskamp and John A. Ruskamp Jr. They had written it completely independently of our research, and were surprised to find others in agreement with their theory. In this study the elements of an ancient petroglyph found in the Northwestern Mojave Desert are
compared with two similar Native American glyphs located hundreds of miles apart in Utah. All three of these glyphs are collectively compared with the modern form of the Chinese ideograph for a boat, Zhou. In addition, two other glyphs that resemble an older form of the Zhou ideograph are considered. The report establishes the proper interpretation of all five of these petroglyphs as depictions of a boat.
I agree with your point. I feel I should point out though, that there is one good reason for a Chinese ship not going to the west coast of America:
It is a lot further than the distance from Bristol to Newfoundland. The pacific is huge.
And that is part of my reason for believing that ZH never went to the Americas: he was far to good a captain. There is little reason for him to press into such a dangerous journey into unknown waters. While there is plenty of reason for him to lean on the more wealthy civilizations of the Indian ocean.
Zheng He's ships may well have reached North America but they weren't the discoverers. The Vikings reached America before the Phoenicians may well have done but there were people in North America before that the Clovis culture never mind the Aztecs, Maya, Incas, Toltecs etc. The idea of America being discovered is arguably racist
He didn't have the balls to do it.
I just couldn't avoid that one.Seriously, I think the question is more what would attract Zheng He to go East rather than down to the Indian Ocean. Instead of looking for evidence in California and the American West, maybe archaeologists and historians might want to look at some of the islands of Oceania or maybe even Hawaii. What trade goods could he expect or want? Would he have had foreknowledge of what he could trade in the Pacific, and chose not to go in that direction deliberately?
Also there's the question of provisions, profit, and the length of travel, which I am sure He understood well. He and his men grew certain beans and anti-scorbutics on his boats, but surely he would have needed to trade for provisions to continue travelling. Perhaps he knew beforehand what provisions he would get in Indonesia, India, etc. and the amount of profit he could make after trading for necessities. I would think that He designed all of his trips around the balance between trade for provisions and projected profit. Perhaps a possible desire to travel the Pacific was tempered by a foreknowledge of scant trade for provisions or a lower profit margin. I'm not familiar with the flora and fauna of Oceania, but he may very well have known from an earlier unrecorded journey that the risk of sailing through the Pacific resided not so much in weather but the difficulty of properly equipping a ship through trade and making enough cash to keep the investors happy.
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Discovery is a relative term. Columbus discovered America from the viewpoint of 15th century Europe, even if there were already people there. He didn't discover America for those people, sure, but for Europe he did.
Right, I think the use of the term "Discovery of the America's" is used within the context of contact after the initial prehistoric migrations to America over Beringia. Now, as far as the likelihood of Zheng He discovering America - most likely not. there is simply no evidence that really shows it. While his other journeys were pretty well documented, with the erection of pillars, tribute logs, and paintings, his alleged "American journey" has none of this. And as for the ideographs in the south west - The chinese can come up with a symbol for boat, and the native americans can come up with a similar looking symbol for something else entirely.
Well I've been interpreting the boat symbol find I linked above to be more related to wish fulfilment on the part of the writers than it to be actual proof of contact