Did the Warsaw Pact states have Holodomors? And if not, why not?

Stalin signed a whole lot of formal death orders for it not being 'planned'
It's complicated. Part of the reason why it snowballed into something so large was because procedure was to torture the accused, who would eventually spill other names. Those new accused would be then tortured, and the cycle would begin again. In this way, the investigation of a single purported Trotskyite could turn up hundreds of so-called conspirators. Stalin of course took this as proof that there was a wide-ranging Trotskyist conspiracy against him.
 
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Part of the reason why it snowballed into something so large was because procedure was to torture the accused, who would eventually spill other names
The main reason is, local NKVD divisions were receiving from Moscow quotas for arrests which were getting higher and higher.
The Great Purge wasn't necessarily planned, but an ad-hoc Great Purge was arguably an inevitability with Stalin in power
Stalin's paranoia and lack of empathy were an important factor.
 
The Holodomor was to abolish peasant smallholders as a class, because such a class was considered intrinsically dangerous to the Revolution in the USSR. The Great Purge was to eliminate any trace of resistance to Stalin in the USSR - especially within the Party and the Red Army.
After that, Stalin had ironclad control of the USSR. The USSR had complete military domination over Eastern Europe
 
Writing in the late 1950's, Philip Mosley suggested some reasons why collectviization was a more protracted and less violent process in eastern Europe than in the USSR:

Now this is fascinating! Thankyou.

The Holodomor was to abolish peasant smallholders as a class, because such a class was considered intrinsically dangerous to the Revolution in the USSR. The Great Purge was to eliminate any trace of resistance to Stalin in the USSR - especially within the Party and the Red Army.
After that, Stalin had ironclad control of the USSR. The USSR had complete military domination over Eastern Europe

I am not sure it was as purposeful as that. I think there was a significant degree of paranoid bumbling as Stalin was faced with the failure of his ideas and then blamed everyone else for his bad ideas being bad.

Stalin never got soft and lazy. Bloodbath of the Great Terror was not intended or planned, it was a system crash, a guillotine out of control.

If the Great Terror wasn't planned (and it seems credible to me that it wasn't, though we'll need to wait until we get full access to all of the relevant archives to say for sure), I don't think that blundering into such a mess really absolves Stalin and his accomplices for what they did.

fasquardon
 
They also did not enforce any specific ideology in Italy.

Okay. That’s nice. It would be nice to imagine that were true, but it isn’t. (Operation Gladio)

I don't think that blundering into such a mess really absolves Stalin and his accomplices for what they did.

This. This. Repeatedly this. We don’t deal with absolution or praise in history. We deal with what and why from sources, preferably archival. The existing theories of the state in the 1930s in the bourgeois capitalist west and the nomenklatura capitalist east both viewed the state as responsible for its actions, even if those actions were abhorrent, and viewed inaction or inability to act by a state as an abhorrence in itself. Restraint from action in civil matters was praised in France, UK and the US; but, incapacity was abhorred.

My most recent reading of archivally informed Soviet economic history placed the state as incompetent in its policy, logistics, market structure. That it’s intent was the cultural liquidation of right wing nationalist elites, and economic liquidation of peasant capacity for low equilibrium production; but, that the first wasn’t physical liquidation of nationalities nor the second physical liquidation of peasantries.
 
If the Great Terror wasn't planned (and it seems credible to me that it wasn't, though we'll need to wait until we get full access to all of the relevant archives to say for sure), I don't think that blundering into such a mess really absolves Stalin and his accomplices for what they did.

fasquardon
Uhh... Nobody is trying to defend Stalin. I don't see how you came to that conclusion.
 
I am not sure it was as purposeful as that. I think there was a significant degree of paranoid bumbling as Stalin was faced with the failure of his ideas and then blamed everyone else for his bad ideas being bad.
The Holodomor was not just Stalin. Bolshevik doctrine was that a person's political nature was determined entirely by his class identity. The basis of the Revolution was the proletariat - the industrial working class. Peasant smallholders, owning their own land and working for themselves, were considered as "petty bourgeois". As such, they would by nature oppose the Revolution, and they were a large portion of the population. Such a group was a dnager to the revolution, and had to be eliminated. This was to be achieved by collectivization of agriculture. The peasantry would become agricultural proletarians.

But the peasants didn't like that. They resisted. The terror famine was ginned up to break that resistance - and it was done with the agreement of all the leading Bolsheviks. This was in 1932-1934, and at this time, while Stalin was pre-eminent, there were some prominent Bolsheviks who were his rivals or critics (Kirov, Rykov, Ordzhonikidze), but agreed with the policy.

The Great Purge was Stalin's move to destroy any possible dissent in the Party and the country. This included the elimination of anyone with the stature to be an effective critic - leaders of the 1917 Revolution such as Rykov and Bukharin, and even old revolutionary heroes such as Maria Spiridonova.
 
The basis of the Revolution was the proletariat - the industrial working class. Peasant smallholders, owning their own land and working for themselves, were considered as "petty bourgeois". As such, they would by nature oppose the Revolution, and they were a large portion of the population. Such a group was a dnager to the revolution, and had to be eliminated. This was to be achieved by collectivization of agriculture. The peasantry would become agricultural proletarians.

1) NEP
2) Scissors crisis and Ural Siberian method: the party was more worried about urban spontaneity than rural unrest.
3) The party viewed the rural population as divided into landless peasants, small peasants, middling peasants, large peasants, Farmers and NEPmen, Rural trader Petits-bourgeois and NEPmen. This view wasn't entirely accurate, or inaccurate, but they didn't view the rural economy as singularly petits-bourgeois, or even predominantly petits-bourgeois.

But the peasants didn't like that. They resisted. The terror famine was ginned up to break that resistance - and it was done with the agreement of all the leading Bolsheviks.
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did it only have significant effects in two national areas?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did the politbureau approve adequate famine relief?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did the famine relief approved and attempted end at the cities where the logistics network ended: why bother with famine relief at all if the party believed it would be effective because they were too stupid to know that they'd actually eliminated the organic logistics networks?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why in the limited 1990s archival access period did we get definitive access to archives stating that famine relief would be supplied—causing moderns to have a reasonable basis under "responsibility to protect" theory of accusing the party of genocide, but no access to archives (or such archives not existing, or not having ever existed, or not having been able to exist because there was no ginning up) regarding a deliberate decision to starve peasants into submission which would only apply to two national areas despite the problem of the peasantry being union wide?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why was it enacted precisely when the Soviet Union needed mass exports to fund its industrial expansion, and such a famine, even in its "disciplining" or "liquidation" of an unruly class would *reduce long term economic growth*?

For fucks sake the actual historical record is sufficient to motivate anything less than a fascistic bloody soil central european national dictatorship. Take this captive nations tripe and feed it to the pigs. The Soviet Union did not especially persecute peasantries, who they believed to be ideologically pliant and controllable. This reeks of that fascistic captive nations historiography that seeks to lionise the actually persecuted class in the Ukraine: right wing elite nationalists. I would rather hear the history of the especial soviet persecution of right wing Ukraine nationalist elites, rather than some projection of their special persecution onto the peasantry as the stand in for the nation. I have an interest in what actually happened to all kinds of people, but none whatsoever in the self-justificatory narratives for their own content, rather than as objects of historical interest (as "things which happened," rather than as their claims about what things happened.)

The Soviet Famine of 1932-1933 is sufficiently historical, horrible, and an indication of vast failures in state apparatuses that a special racial national myth of Ukraine persecution is not necessary to explain history, or even to attack the Soviet Union of 1932-1933. The only purpose of a holodomor myth is to promote contemporary right wing and fascist Ukraine positions in the Ukraine. Destroying a rural logistics network such that famine relief is impossible was a failure of state power (condemnable in the day) and a failure of responsibility to protect (a liberal criteria for genocide today). Eliminating the economic power of semi-autonomous villages without an equivalent or superior economic power was a reduction in soviet strength (condemnable in the society of the time, and a crime against the soviet union) and resulted in a failure of responsibility to protect (a liberal criteria for genocide today). Reducing soviet economic output by retarding agricultural production was sabotage at the highest levels of state, and resulted in preventable deaths.

In all other areas of the soviet union, apart from the two national areas affected, collectivisation and ameliorated famine resulted in the desired party level of control out of low equilibrium production (the scissors crisis, which threatened urban working class communist revolution against the party). In all other areas of the soviet union, collectivisation and ameliorated famine resulted in the generation of a large alienated and displaced small peasantry forced into the cities and mines to work at cheaper rates and with easier boss control than the historical urban proletariat, thus diluting the existing revolutionary proletariat, in the interests of the Party and bureaucratic nomenklatura's control over the proletariat. The famine wasn't desired, wasn't ordered, wasn't desired when happening, and didn't achieve the outcomes required.

There is an adequate scholarly literature on this topic, which I have cited sufficiently often on the topic.

Actual history is ugly enough for everything except current political debates on keeping Ukranians in current servitude to blood and soil myths.
 
Okay. That’s nice. It would be nice to imagine that were true, but it isn’t. (Operation Gladio)

Umm… wasn’t Gladio a stay behind military op to organize a resistance movement in potentially occupied countries? While that sort of thing is very prudent, the fact that it was used to surpress e.g. communists beforehand is not unquestionable. Some of the more unsavory people involved might have, tho. They were criminals and terrorists of course.
 
Stalin had signed 44500 death orders. 16% of all the executed. The rest was not planned.
Given the size of the apparatus in question, I think there's middle ground between names that appear on a list personally signed by Stalin and unplanned, that still counts as planned

This leaves aside I'm not sure planed vs. unplanned really matters much in terms of living (or not living) within that system.
 
Okay. That’s nice. It would be nice to imagine that were true, but it isn’t. (Operation Gladio)
Wasnt Gladio also an Italian operation, ie It's not simply a US(or Soviet force) invading, it's more like the local communists/security doing something bad on Moscow's orders or by themselves how much of Gladio actual operations were fully US directed rather than right wing Italian trained by them directed?
 
Wasnt Gladio also an Italian operation, ie It's not simply a US(or Soviet force) invading, it's more like the local communists/security doing something bad on Moscow's orders or by themselves how much of Gladio actual operations were fully US directed rather than right wing Italian trained by them directed?
And this is the terrain people are resistant to in the fraternal parties. Gomulka was purged By the SU, elevated by the SU, threatened war against the Soviet Union, brought back to fold in negotiation, and then purged by Poles.

Nagy was purged by the locals who were more Soviet than Soviet (Stalins best Hungarian disciple), rehabilitated by SU, appointed by SU, fought by pro Soviet Hungarians against Soviet orders, purged by pro soviet Hungarians, elevated by SU and Hungarians to stop a revolution, followed the revolutions coat tails, was purged by Hungarians as the puppet of Zhukov, and executed by Hungarians voluntarily exceeding plan quotas with no real interest from the Soviet Union as long as he wasn’t in power. Then their new puppet had to fight their excessive allies to get Hungarian independence from minutae which is what the Soviet Union wanted and the Soviet aligned Hungarians didn’t.

there isn’t a transmission belt, but a gear box, differential and clutch between Moscow and the ground. And by 1968 the demarcation line of complete freedom of policy under party rule (no workers councils) was drawn.

It’s beautifully and horrifically complex and not in any way simple. Yes there were hard lines: real communist neutralisation and workers councils. So too in Italy with real communist neutralisation and workers councils. It’s almost as if wage labour states in the 1950s/60s detested workers control.
 
Stalin had signed 44500 death orders. 16% of all the executed. The rest was not planned.
That's an odd definition of 'not planned'.

I'd suggest it was 'delegated authority'. Stalin established the precedents and criteria for executions. Regional and other authorities simply carried on with the task. Mostly to benefit themselves but that was Stalin’s goal also.
 

CalBear

Moderator
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Monthly Donor
1) NEP
2) Scissors crisis and Ural Siberian method: the party was more worried about urban spontaneity than rural unrest.
3) The party viewed the rural population as divided into landless peasants, small peasants, middling peasants, large peasants, Farmers and NEPmen, Rural trader Petits-bourgeois and NEPmen. This view wasn't entirely accurate, or inaccurate, but they didn't view the rural economy as singularly petits-bourgeois, or even predominantly petits-bourgeois.


If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did it only have significant effects in two national areas?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did the politbureau approve adequate famine relief?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why did the famine relief approved and attempted end at the cities where the logistics network ended: why bother with famine relief at all if the party believed it would be effective because they were too stupid to know that they'd actually eliminated the organic logistics networks?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why in the limited 1990s archival access period did we get definitive access to archives stating that famine relief would be supplied—causing moderns to have a reasonable basis under "responsibility to protect" theory of accusing the party of genocide, but no access to archives (or such archives not existing, or not having ever existed, or not having been able to exist because there was no ginning up) regarding a deliberate decision to starve peasants into submission which would only apply to two national areas despite the problem of the peasantry being union wide?
If the terror famine was "ginned up" why was it enacted precisely when the Soviet Union needed mass exports to fund its industrial expansion, and such a famine, even in its "disciplining" or "liquidation" of an unruly class would *reduce long term economic growth*?

For fucks sake the actual historical record is sufficient to motivate anything less than a fascistic bloody soil central european national dictatorship. Take this captive nations tripe and feed it to the pigs. The Soviet Union did not especially persecute peasantries, who they believed to be ideologically pliant and controllable. This reeks of that fascistic captive nations historiography that seeks to lionise the actually persecuted class in the Ukraine: right wing elite nationalists. I would rather hear the history of the especial soviet persecution of right wing Ukraine nationalist elites, rather than some projection of their special persecution onto the peasantry as the stand in for the nation. I have an interest in what actually happened to all kinds of people, but none whatsoever in the self-justificatory narratives for their own content, rather than as objects of historical interest (as "things which happened," rather than as their claims about what things happened.)

The Soviet Famine of 1932-1933 is sufficiently historical, horrible, and an indication of vast failures in state apparatuses that a special racial national myth of Ukraine persecution is not necessary to explain history, or even to attack the Soviet Union of 1932-1933. The only purpose of a holodomor myth is to promote contemporary right wing and fascist Ukraine positions in the Ukraine. Destroying a rural logistics network such that famine relief is impossible was a failure of state power (condemnable in the day) and a failure of responsibility to protect (a liberal criteria for genocide today). Eliminating the economic power of semi-autonomous villages without an equivalent or superior economic power was a reduction in soviet strength (condemnable in the society of the time, and a crime against the soviet union) and resulted in a failure of responsibility to protect (a liberal criteria for genocide today). Reducing soviet economic output by retarding agricultural production was sabotage at the highest levels of state, and resulted in preventable deaths.

In all other areas of the soviet union, apart from the two national areas affected, collectivisation and ameliorated famine resulted in the desired party level of control out of low equilibrium production (the scissors crisis, which threatened urban working class communist revolution against the party). In all other areas of the soviet union, collectivisation and ameliorated famine resulted in the generation of a large alienated and displaced small peasantry forced into the cities and mines to work at cheaper rates and with easier boss control than the historical urban proletariat, thus diluting the existing revolutionary proletariat, in the interests of the Party and bureaucratic nomenklatura's control over the proletariat. The famine wasn't desired, wasn't ordered, wasn't desired when happening, and didn't achieve the outcomes required.

There is an adequate scholarly literature on this topic, which I have cited sufficiently often on the topic.

Actual history is ugly enough for everything except current political debates on keeping Ukranians in current servitude to blood and soil myths.
Okay, this is co convoluted that I've read it five times, been convinced that it is genocide denial , literally hit the Ban trigger, and then that it isn't genocide denial and recinded the Ban since you seem to be arguing for both sides of the question.

Let's make this simple:

Did the USSR commit a Crime Against Humanity or Genocide during what is known internationally as the Holodomor?

Yes or no.

No multiple paragraph hemming/hawing, dredging up "nationalist Blood and soil" crap, or anything else.

Simple Yes or No.

You DO need to answer this question.
 
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The titoist purges lead to great hardships, as political connections, replace any level of competence, in industry and agriculture,
 
Did the USSR commit a Crime Against Humanity or Genocide during what is known internationally as the Holodomor?

Yes or no.

Yes. The Soviet state had a responsibility to have a famine protection / crisis logistics system in place. They had obliterated existing famine protections and crisis logistics systems and not replaced them. This alone is sufficiently criminal.

“Holodomor” is a Ukraine specific politically loaded discourse which denies major source bases and is used to promote a far right political movement and government.

The Soviet famine of 1932-3 was real. Preventable. Criminal. And disproportionately affected Ukraine.
 

CalBear

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Yes. The Soviet state had a responsibility to have a famine protection / crisis logistics system in place. They had obliterated existing famine protections and crisis logistics systems and not replaced them. This alone is sufficiently criminal.

“Holodomor” is a Ukraine specific politically loaded discourse which denies major source bases and is used to promote a far right political movement and government.

The Soviet famine of 1932-3 was real. Preventable. Criminal. And disproportionately affected Ukraine.
Thank you.

That clears things up nicely.
 
A post of mine from 2018:

***

Writing in the late 1950's, Philip Mosley suggested some reasons why collectviization was a more protracted and less violent process in eastern Europe than in the USSR:

"...except in Bulgaria the process of imposing the collective system has been longer and more gradual than it was in the Soviet Union after 1928.

"One reason for this generally slow development of collectivized agriculture is that the post-1945 regimes inherited from the period of Nazi control a workable system of forced deliveries from the individual peasants. Particularly in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland the Communists took over a highly centralized system of deliveries which went on operating with only slight interruption and which has, in large measure, met the immediate needs of the regime for large-scale deliveries from the peasantry. Thus, the puppet regimes in Eastern Europe have not generally faced the same problem in collecting from the peasants their surpluses after subsistence as did the Soviet government by 1928-1929. The satellite countries, unlike Russia of 1929, have an existing administrative alternative to collectivization. All-out pressure for collectivization would, of course, disrupt an already operating system of collections, and this may well have been another reason why the puppet leaders have proceeded more cautiously than did the Soviet regime.

"Another factor which may well have slowed down the impact of collectivization in Eastern Europe, except for Bulgaria, is the much greater role of individual investment and reinvestment in agriculture, a factor far more productive then it was in the Soviet Union up to 1928. The willingness of the peasants in Eastern Europe to scrimp, to perform extra work in draining their fields, cleaning their pastures, and raising their livestock--generally, to improve their work on the basis of several generations of agricultural advance--has built up a relatively satisfactory level of prosperity in the past, at least in the surplus-producing parts of the region. The same factor of individual effort and private savings is still indispensable today to the satellite governments in meeting their plans.." https://books.google.com/books?id=9-UeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA62

Mosely also notes that in the USSR collectivization was a trial-and-error process in which the form finally adopted--the artel--was considerably short of full communism:

"A third aspect of the triai-and-error process was illustrated in the uncertainty over the preferred structure of the collective farm. In the early stage of collectivization, from 1929 to 1933, the government and the Party assumed, and the peasants were told, that the goal was complete collectivization in the form of the commune, with its suppression of private use of land and of privately owned livestock or poultry. Under the commune, of which a substantial number were created, there was no private livestock, no private market gardens, and no direct private earnings apart from sharing in the collective income of the commune. During this same period the 'society for joint cultivation of land" (TOZ), under which the peasant harvested the crop from his own land while cooperating in certain heavy farm operations with his fellow members, was suppressed. A third type, the artel rapidly became the dominant form of the collective farm, and by 1935 it was the only type permitted. The artel represents a compromise between the government's goal of complete collectivization and the immediate demands and needs of the peasants. Under it, the collectivized peasant is given a small market garden of his own, averaging between one-quarter and one-half acre, on which he raises potatoes and vegetables; he is also allowed to keep for his own use two or three pigs, a cow, two calves, and other small livestock. The importance of this permitted private sector within collectivized agriculture can be measured by the fact that even in 1952 more than one-half of the livestock was actually owned by the individual members of the collectives. At no point, however, has the peasant received the full return from his market garden and livestock, for he has to make heavy payments to the government from his private produce..." https://books.google.com/books?id=9-UeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA57

Mosely also points out that not only was collectivization in east Europe far from complete (when he was writing in the late 1950's) but that it had omitted the stage of experimenting with "communes":

"In Eastern Europe, collectivization has proceeded to different levels, ranging from 6 percent to 50 percent, whereas in the Soviet Union the political factors forced the government to carry out almost complete collectivization within a very few years.

"In several countries of Eastern Europe, again except in Bulgaria, there are several types of collectives, ranging from (1) the cooperative use of machinery on individual plots, like the Soviet pre-1930 "society for joint cultivation," with a defined individual return for labor invested in an individual plot, through (2) the more common type, a collectively operated farm with a part of the return distributed in accordance with the amounts of land contributed by the peasant households, all the way to (3) the Soviet kolkhoz, or artel, in which no separate return is made for the land contributed. However, there is no evidence of the earlier Soviet "commune," forbidden in the Soviet Union today..." https://books.google.com/books?id=9-UeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA63

Some additional reasons for the differences between collectivization in east Europe and the USSR are given in Peasants under Siege: The Collectivization of Romanian Agriculture, 1949-1962 by Gail Kligman and Katherine Verdery:

"Fourth, collectivization in the multinational Soviet Union had a stronger component of denationalization than occurred in Eastern Europe (see, e.g., Gribincea 1996:130; Levesque 2006:1; Martin 2001: 320-25; Swath 2003). Part of this was intentional, part was simply an effect of expropriating and deporting national elites in areas like Ukraine and, later, Moldova and the Baltic states, an action that struck at the heart of potential national movements. Part was the result of Stalin's fear that in the impending war, minorities would form a fifth column against the Soviet state (Shearer 2001: 530-32). More than in Eastern Europe, Soviet collectivization involved mass deportations of minority peoples; resistance to it was stronger in the non-Russian areas (Martin 2001: 294) and was often couched as a fight for national existence. This is not to say that there was nothing comparable in Eastern Europe. In several countries, for example, Germans were targeted for discriminatory treatment, as ineluctably "bourgeois" and as representatives of the fascist wartime enemy. In Romania, beginning in 1946 Germans were deported for war reparations labor in the Soviet Union, and those who returned to Romania thereafter might subsequently be deported again within the country. Nonetheless, this link between nationality and collectivization policy was less marked than in the Soviet experience.

"A final difference between the Soviet and the East European cases was that the latter did not face grain crises as catastrophic as the former. There were indeed serious food shortages and famines, and there were war reparations that had to be paid to the Soviets in foodstuffs, but two things mitigated the food problem. First, according to Mosely, World War II bequeathed to these countries the systems the Nazis had put in place for requisitioning food from peasant households; those systems would initially help to supply the necessary grain. "The satellite countries, unlike Russia of 1929, had an existing administrative alternative to collectivization" (Mosely 1958: 62). This did not mean the grain would flow automatically, but at least the infrastructure was there. A second mitigating factor applies to only some East European countries: Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Poland, and to some extent Hungary. They had higher industrial capacity than did the Soviet Union, and correspondingly, the "primitive accumulation" plan that underlay Soviet collectivization was less urgent for them. It remained a factor, however, in the Balkan countries..." https://books.google.com/books?id=rmzOtWapThUC&pg=PA82

Of course another factor may just have been luck. Stalin in 1952 in Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR indicated some discontent with the kolkhoz system as insufficiently communist, but if he was planning to move further toward "full communism" in the countryside in both the USSR and the "people's democracies" he died before this could be accomplished. And of course one reason there was not a bloodbath of 1937-8 proportions in eastern Europe is that there also wasn't any in the USSR in 1945-53, whatever Stalin may have been planning toward the end of his life.

Like others have said, a very good and illuminating write-up about the postwar situation in Eastern Europe!

In general, this makes me think that if there was a time when European countries could have been made into "People's Democracies" with heavy state control of the economy, with the smallest amount of interference with the existing status quo, the immediate post-WWII period was that time. In the combatant and occupied nations of Europe, the war economy and its demands had already created most of the prerequisites of moving to such a system after the war. The national economy was already harnessed by the state (that is, the local state or an occupying state), democratic systems where they existed before war had at least partially "suspended for the duration" (or worse, obviously, in the occupied countries). In short, this was a time window where the conditions allowed this kind of a move.

I'd also say that, in comparison to the obvious parallel, the end of WWI where nations had similarly been taken over by a war economy in the recent years, in 1945 there was no similar internal disruption, to the same degree, in the combatant nations as there was in 1918. The situation was better under control by the governments of the winning nations, and arguably even by the governments of the nations on the losing side, when we compare things to the explosive, often revolutionary conditions that prevailed in Europe after WWI. Had WWII continued a year or two longer, maybe a similar exhaustion would have set in. But by mid-1945, Europe was not yet there IOTL.

As a corollary to the above, let's take my country as an example. The Finnish government also took control of the national economy during the war, and created elaborate systems to effect this control, a major component in this being the newly-created Ministry of Supply that was charged with the national rationing regime. Now, should the Finnish forces have lost to the Soviets on the Karelian Isthmus in the summer of 1944, and should this have led to the Red Army taking Helsinki, followed by a Finnish capitulation by early 1945 - in this scenario, a new Finnish People's Republic, propped up on Soviet bayonets, would not have needed to create new systems to extend its economic control over Finland. It could have merely taken control of the existing Ministry of Supply, just like the other ministries and the police forces, etc.

IOTL, during the immediate postwar years that we call "the years of danger" due to a real fear of a Soviet-supported far-left takeover of the country, the Finnish Communists actually did for a time take over the State Police, and use it as a cat's-paw to hunt those considered guilty of the war, and generally anyone who had been in close cooperation with the Germans, and so on. During an actual Soviet occupation, other existing state organizations could have been similarly repurposed for use by the Finnish Socialists, with the Soviet leaders in big part pulling their strings, to create a functional Finnish People's Republic with high amount of continuity from the wartime structures of the Republic of Finland.

Had the same process happened before the war, a lot of changes would have been needed to make the system suitable for a Soviet-derived Socialist system, but now after nearly six years of militarization, war economy and heavy rationing, with democracy and people's rights being practically curtailed for the war effort and the "greater good" of national defence, the needed changes would have been much smaller. To wit, in many organizations they might have amounted to replacing personnel and changing logos and some words in letterheads.

Naturally, the "pacification" of the country would be done by the Red Army, corralling bigger remnants of the Finnish Army which have not accepted the capitulation, rooting out potential Finnish resistance cells or "stay behind" units of soldiers (Finnish forest brothers), while NKVD units would enforce the decisions of the new government, supported by the quickly created "Finnish People's Army" and/or people's police units, staffed by stalwarts of the far left (as well as opportunists). But apart from this overtly violent side of the takeover, the bureaucratic part of it might be much less "revolutionary" than some might imagine.
 
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