DBWI: Tsarist Forces Dont Win The RCW?

[AltoRegnant]

Otl, the white army was able to defeat the Russian communist forces with some difficulties, and the Tsar was restored his throne with stronger limits on his power- somewhere between the Kaiser and the British King. Tsar Nicholas II died only a few years later from the turbulence and stress of his reign, and Tsar Alexei II took the helm. He oversaw the russian empire rebuilding, and reanexed parts of eastern europe during the thirties- some 'peacefully' like the Baltics, and others less so, like Ukraine.

But what if the communists had won the civil war?

 

[David T]

OOC: What Tsarist forces? Not a single White leader made restoration of the monarchy an official political objective, as I noted at https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...d-to-the-romanovs.454503/page-2#post-17784008

I'm not denying that a White victory (which incidentally IMO is not even the most likely alternative to the Bolsheviks) might in fact lead to a Tsarist restoration, but it is a bit misleading to call the White armies "Tsarist forces"--a label they deliberately did not use.

 

[Peppe]

OOC: Maybe you can consider the “tsarist” an “in-universe” term, or this Russian Civil War has a larger support for the monarchy due to an earlier POD, which is what i’ Going with

The Tsarists would probably survive as an independent Finland under the Romanovs, seeing as they were their biggest supporters ever since Nicolas I (since he was a “Finnophile” and all that Jazz)

My major curiosity is what that would entail in relation to WWII, since a communist Russia (whose hatred for the monarchy was so extreme they planned to execute all Romanovs) would probably don’t ally with Japan and the other Allies the Kuomitang and the Axis (hell, a communist Russia might even ally with them!)

 

[AltoRegnant]

OOC: Maybe you can consider the “tsarist” an “in-universe” term, or this Russian Civil War has a larger support for the monarchy due to an earlier POD, which is what i’ Going with

The Tsarists would probably survive as an independent Finland under the Romanovs, seeing as they were their biggest supporters ever since Nicolas I (since he was a “Finnophile” and all that Jazz)

My major curiosity is what that would entail in relation to WWII, since a communist Russia (whose hatred for the monarchy was so extreme they planned to execute all Romanovs) would probably don’t ally with Japan and the other Allies the Kuomitang and the Axis (hell, a communist Russia might even ally with them!)

Commie russia could plausibly butterfly the German Revolution- otl the spartacists gained power by arguing that the Romanovs and Windsors wanted to restore Wilhelm the Second his throne when he'd done naught but send men to die for nothing, which couldn't happen if russia lacks a romanov leader. Commie russia could see germany march steadfast to the right

 

[Puzzle]

Every single communist revolution has led to a failed state in five years or less. Even if the monarchists lost the remnants of the state would be begging for their return within a decade.

Moscow’s reputation as a bachelor party haven probably would get butterflied, which is an awful shame.

 

[Avrorrange]

OOC: @David T If monarchy is restored, then the white forces would have retrospectively been seen as tsarist forces.

 

[Whiteshore]

Even if the monarchists lost the remnants of the state would be begging for their return within a decade.

Or the Whites would have won under a republican banner.

 

[Dolan]

The Tsar was *initially* only restored as a neutral moderator between various political forces, be them being "Fascistic" in the mold of French and Italian Fascism, to the Anglo-American Liberal Democratic, to the Orthodox Theocrats who grew popular during the trouble. Of course, Tsar Alexei's reforms ended up restoring much of the Monarch's power, but yeah, the real government power still lies in the office of Prime Minister, who is appointed through direct, Democratic election every seven years.

And don't cite the Spartacist Revolution in Germany, it only ended with Germany ceased as an unified polity, as Bavarian "Counter-revolution" restored the Wittelsbach Kingdom, the Prussians took over East Prussia and restored Wilhelm as "mere" King of Prussia, and the Central and North Communist States ended up as what is basically a warring rivals between Rosa-led Spartacists against Rohm-led Volkrepublik, even if both claimed to be legal government of *all* Germany until Bavarian, Prussian, Dutch, and Danes finally agreed to just carve up the failed states (with Prussians bailing out from united Germany project for good).

Communism permanently poisoned Germany, and no nation with such self-worth are willing to try it... Even the most ardent Leftist Republican nowadays leans more into French Fascism.

 

[Histor32]

If the Soviets had won, liberalism would have spread, mass equality, and workers rights would be the norm.

Instead I have to go now and report for my morning drug screen, health exam, I pray nothing is wrong since yiu tend to get dropped after your first incident... I can't stand to go back to the shanty towns.. social media check.

The Soviets were right.. Now we are slaves

 

[Histor32]

Can't afford education or Healthcare insurance that is mandated since the prices are set by corporations.

I can barley afford to talk over usanet with all of the charges.

Maybe by now we would have minimum wage and unions of workers world wide holding the oligarchs accountable

 

[Lalli]

Finland probably would had avoided war with Russia in 1930's. Soviets hardly would had tried that if they would had won. Finland just barely won Finno-Russian War. Finno-Russian relationships were long time very poor and Finland even supported independence movements in Baltics.

 

[AltoRegnant]

If the Soviets had won, liberalism would have spread, mass equality, and workers rights would be the norm.

Instead I have to go now and report for my morning drug screen, health exam, I pray nothing is wrong since yiu tend to get dropped after your first incident... I can't stand to go back to the shanty towns.. social media check.

The Soviets were right.. Now we are slaves

Yikes, is it that bad in Monarchical Europe? In the western hemisphere, the red scare being put out made progress on that stuff possible. America has had really strong unions cause of the fear of tyranny and revolution being kicked out the door.

 

[Lalli]

Yikes, is it that bad in Monarchical Europe? In the western hemisphere, the red scare being put out made progress on that stuff possible. America has had really strong unions cause of the fear of tyranny and revolution being kicked out the door.

Pretty much only in Eastern European monarchies. Nordic monarchies, Germany, UK, Spain and Italy have quiet workable social security system where people can get free education (at least basic one) and medical treatment.

 

[Aisha Clan-Clan]

maybe it's france or somewhere else that has antisemitism go over the edge and lead to several million dead jews instead of Tsarist russia

 

[Dolan]

Germany,

Bavarians is much better than Prussians in this regard tho, the divide line between West and East Europe is now widely regarded as border between Bavaria and Prussia.

 

[Aisha Clan-Clan]

Pretty much only in Eastern European monarchies. Nordic monarchies, Germany, UK, Spain and Italy have quiet workable social security system where people can get free education (at least basic one) and medical treatment.

The same workable british social security system that's basically euthanasia at 65 and no healthcare besides providing free cocaine and speed for workers to keep being able to work 16 days. Tsarist Russia at least allows most of it's poor (russians that is, not the central asians or jews) to vote. If you're behind Tsarist Russia or even the bloody Ottomans...

 

[Histor32]

Yikes, is it that bad in Monarchical Europe? In the western hemisphere, the red scare being put out made progress on that stuff possible. America has had really strong unions cause of the fear of tyranny and revolution being kicked out the door.

Of course with your colored bathrooms, aparthiad culture, your unions are but puppets for their corporate owners just like the government there.

Propoganda and fake news.

At least the Soviets have been to the moon, we also donated very heavily after your nuclear disaster in Pennsylvania.

Your 1 percent while rich only put do much back where after the great struggle don't allow such wealth accumulation... And for good reasons, this has helped our semi private sector grow.

The east out produces the west 5 to 1.. And since the accident it only increases

 

[AltoRegnant]

Of course with your colored bathrooms, aparthiad culture, your unions are but puppets for their corporate owners just like the government there.

Propoganda and fake news.

At least the Soviets have been to the moon, we also donated very heavily after your nuclear disaster in Pennsylvania.

Your 1 percent while rich only put do much back where after the great struggle don't allow such wealth accumulation... And for good reasons, this has helped our semi private sector grow.

The east out produces the west 5 to 1.. And since the accident it only increases

Ooc: dude the soviets never existed in this world. Though I must say I'm curious what historiography you subscribe to since I'm pretty sure most would say the red scare seriously damaged social and economic progress

 

[West]

Of course with your colored bathrooms, aparthiad culture, your unions are but puppets for their corporate owners just like the government there.

Propoganda and fake news.

At least the Soviets have been to the moon, we also donated very heavily after your nuclear disaster in Pennsylvania.

Your 1 percent while rich only put do much back where after the great struggle don't allow such wealth accumulation... And for good reasons, this has helped our semi private sector grow.

The east out produces the west 5 to 1.. And since the accident it only increases

The Pennsylvania nuclear disaster or as we call it the Adamsburg disaster would never have happened if the security forces had done their jobs and Kept the brownies from wreaking the place. Instead the environmentalists caused a meltdown and you still cant live there. The whole disaster is why we switched to thorum plants in the 70s.

 

[Peppe]

OCC: Is only me or this entire thread now derailed to a gigantic spiral of worldwide crappiness?

Ooc: dude the soviets never existed in this world. Though I must say I'm curious what historiography you subscribe to since I'm pretty sure most would say the red scare seriously damaged social and economic progress

Agreed, I'm almost tempted to belief that the "character" writting this is basically an member of the far-left in Russia who dreams of a world where the USSR won the Civil War