In 1775 the American Colonies rose up in revolt against the British crown. They did quite well initially, but it all turned around at the Battle of Saratoga, in which the British decisively defeated the Americans, killed general Benedict Arnold, captured several thousand American soldiers, and gained control of the Hudson River Valley. If the Americans won at this battle the revolt could have kept going and potentially won in the future. There was some talk of direct French intervention in the war, and that might have changed the outcome. When the British one they executed many prominent rebels and tightened control, laying the seeds for the 1810 revolution which resulted in the creation of the American parliament and eventual foundation of the British Imperial Federation, which gave full representation to the people of Britain, BNA, Australasia, and, eventually, the Cape. If the rebels had been successful in 1775 they planned on setting up a republic and becoming fully independent as the "United States of America." What would this new republic be like and how would the British defeat affect history?
DBWI: American Revolt of 1775 succeeds
- Thread starter MichiganNationalist1837
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I don't know what an independent America might look like, beyond Jenna Jones's For Want of a Nail(which truly was a groundbreaking novel when it came out in 1975.), but to be quite honest with you, we are very fortunate that the Revolution of 1810 ended the way it did, because there were a fairly large number of elites on both sides of the Atlantic who wanted to utterly crush the spirit of liberty that still existed amongst many at the time. And, indeed, there's a reason why BNA, later to become the Commonwealth of North America, became the most loosely governed all the BIF's holdings, and later remained an outer-tier member of the Commonwealth of Nations in more modern times.
IIRC, For Want of a Nail's America ended up adopting a system much like that proposed by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison(as you may recall, they were pardoned by the British gov't after the war, in exchange for a few years' imprisonment and swearing an oath of permanent loyalty to Britain) in the 1780's in our universe, but with a few differences.
One truly major difference from our own world that I recall, besides this, was the fact that while slavery was gradually eliminated piecemeal between 1847 and 1875 in our timeline(post the Great Compromise of 1816, of course, in which all states north of the Mason-Dixon line eliminated slavery over a period of 5 to 10 years.), ITTL, it took a civil war to end slavery in 1865. (Such a shame, speaking as a left-leaning Republican, particularly one who is fond of both the French and German Republics.....but I suppose the British system does have it's advantages)
OOC: Yes, TTL's For Want of a Nail is indeed OTL.
IIRC, For Want of a Nail's America ended up adopting a system much like that proposed by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison(as you may recall, they were pardoned by the British gov't after the war, in exchange for a few years' imprisonment and swearing an oath of permanent loyalty to Britain) in the 1780's in our universe, but with a few differences.
One truly major difference from our own world that I recall, besides this, was the fact that while slavery was gradually eliminated piecemeal between 1847 and 1875 in our timeline(post the Great Compromise of 1816, of course, in which all states north of the Mason-Dixon line eliminated slavery over a period of 5 to 10 years.), ITTL, it took a civil war to end slavery in 1865. (Such a shame, speaking as a left-leaning Republican, particularly one who is fond of both the French and German Republics.....but I suppose the British system does have it's advantages)
OOC: Yes, TTL's For Want of a Nail is indeed OTL.
Well, to begin with, I imagine it would be called the "American Revolution, or perhaps "The Great Liberation" in Commonwealth textbooks, rather than "American Revolt of 1775". That being said, I doubt this new "nation" would've made it very far. It'd be bogged down by slaveholder interests, wracked with religious and cultural tension, facing constant native raids, cut off from Britain, and be hyperdecentralized, meaning government would have been impossible. For the revolt to truely suceed, and not for the colonies to come running home, you'd need to rework their system to become a unified, centralized nation.
Well, British North America would likely look quite different culturally. I mean, even though slavery ended up being gradually wound down, it was done gradually enough that the Southern slave-holders were able to become something far more akin to British landed gentry. Hell, more than just 'landed gentry' - North America ended up with its own House of Lords, effectively.
Given what was suggested as a governing document i doubt that the revolt would have resulted in one country. The articles of confederation concept was more of an alliance document then a nation building one. Each of the colonies would have gone their own way, as independent nations, once it was discovered that the proposed federal government couldn't satisfy of its constituents. There would have been another revolt shortly after the empire was pushed out, and i bet that the empire would have ended up back in control after the rebels proved that they didn't have what it took to govern themselves...
The original poster mentioned a French intervention. Not sure how they could have afforded it, considering how close to bankruptcy they were at the time. The only good side I can see is that it would probably hasten the French Revelution,which would be less bloody due to more limited technology.
Actually my thinking is that if the revolt had succeeded, the Articles of Confederation would have broken down and the '13 states' would have become nations in their own right. I don't think Britain would bother taking them back after successfully rebelling against the Crown, and they'd be too proud and stubborn to come crawling back after starting all of that.
No, what I do see are a series of small-scale wars between the 13 states as they try to expand beyond the Appalachian Mountains, the small states like Delaware and Rhode Island would quickly be overrun by the larger states. I could easily see New Jersey being annexed by New York after a brief struggle. Not sure if Massachusetts could keep hold of it's territory in Maine, but stranger things have happened.
I do see slavery sticking around for a while longer in the southern states, but in time the growing global consensus against the slave trade would kill it off, even with a growing global demand for cotton (which was their BIG cash crop at the time). Production would just be expanded into other parts of the world as what happened in RL.
Of the former colonies... I see Virginia, South Carolina (which might talk North Carolina into uniting with it into 'United Carolina'), Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New York being the most powerful of the nations to emerge out of the failure of the Articles of Confederation.
Now back then most of the land beyond the Appalachian Mountains was in the hands of France and the First Nation tribes, but through a combo of Frontier Wars and purchases from France due to, well everything that France was going through in this RL, I could see France needing money and selling off big pieces of it's Louisiana territory for quick cash.
I couldn't tell you how long Spain could keep ahold of it's Florida territory in this TL, it's swampy, there's not a lot of money to be made out of it in this era... They might sell it off to either France or Britain. Or it might go independent at a much later date.
No, what I do see are a series of small-scale wars between the 13 states as they try to expand beyond the Appalachian Mountains, the small states like Delaware and Rhode Island would quickly be overrun by the larger states. I could easily see New Jersey being annexed by New York after a brief struggle. Not sure if Massachusetts could keep hold of it's territory in Maine, but stranger things have happened.
I do see slavery sticking around for a while longer in the southern states, but in time the growing global consensus against the slave trade would kill it off, even with a growing global demand for cotton (which was their BIG cash crop at the time). Production would just be expanded into other parts of the world as what happened in RL.
Of the former colonies... I see Virginia, South Carolina (which might talk North Carolina into uniting with it into 'United Carolina'), Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New York being the most powerful of the nations to emerge out of the failure of the Articles of Confederation.
Now back then most of the land beyond the Appalachian Mountains was in the hands of France and the First Nation tribes, but through a combo of Frontier Wars and purchases from France due to, well everything that France was going through in this RL, I could see France needing money and selling off big pieces of it's Louisiana territory for quick cash.
I couldn't tell you how long Spain could keep ahold of it's Florida territory in this TL, it's swampy, there's not a lot of money to be made out of it in this era... They might sell it off to either France or Britain. Or it might go independent at a much later date.
Perhaps if it was Successful the Spanish and Portuguese colonies would've tried revolting as well. I personally doubt so because while the Spanish Empire had been in a rough patch for a century, its inhabitants (later full citizens after the approval of the Barcelona's Constitution of 1821) were loyal to the Crown and identified themselves as Spanish rather than from the colony of their birth.
If these United States had actually become independent the Imperial Federation wouldn't exist as we know it and neither the Spanish, French or Dutch would have emulate its model in their own colonies. Perhaps the world would have more independent but smaller nations.
If these United States had actually become independent the Imperial Federation wouldn't exist as we know it and neither the Spanish, French or Dutch would have emulate its model in their own colonies. Perhaps the world would have more independent but smaller nations.