February 1, 2019-From the Rolling Stone collector's edition issue on Nirvana, which includes a bundling together of previous articles, blurbs and reviews of each album, a best song list, and the following new article just for the issue:
“It’s Good to be the King: Inside the Court of Nirvana and Kurt Cobain”, by David Fricke
I have interviewed Kurt Cobain five times over the decades prior to this current session, two of those times with his bandmates. One would think that means that I know exactly what to expect from the Nirvana frontman turned entertainment mogul, but in fact, he always surprises me each time I see him after a period of intervening years. There is always something new, about his field, and the world at large, when I sit and talk with him.
When I first sat with him in the fall of 1993, Nirvana was in the midst of touring In Utero, playing general admission venues of an average capacity of 5000, working to confirm that their mainstream success with Nevermind was no mere fluke. Cobain was 26 years old, still married to Courtney Love, still grappling with feuds with Pearl Jam and Guns N’ Roses, and while being an adoring father to his eldest child, daughter Frances Bean Cobain, there was also always a coterie of nannies to step in, as they didn’t particularly trust him or Love to take on most of the day-to-day responsibility. Nirvana was signed to DGC Records, a relatively small hard rock imprint of Geffen Records, and David Geffen himself, along with Miramax co-founder Harvey Weinstein, were the undisputed kingmakers, having amassed considerable power and respect. The Internet was in its infancy, Michael Eisner was in the middle of pulling Disney out of a dark age, and it was at the point people were just starting to always have a VCR in their house.
Fast forward to today, and it’s a very different world. Geffen and Weinstein are gone and long discredited, Cobain divorced Love and is happily married to actress Charlize Theron, with a fairly expansive family, whom they have long been hands-on and direct in rearing. Their production company, Springbok Productions, has emerged to fill the void that Geffen and Weinstein left behind, with untold billions from their sudden dominance in film, television, digital media, animation, video games and musical theater. And Nirvana, as well as Cobain himself, have basically cemented themselves as the most credible challengers to the legacy of The Beatles, selling out tens of thousands of tickets everywhere they play, and Cobain is now seen as a pioneer who has completely disrupted the entire world.
And yet, as I sit to talk to him, Krist Novoselic, Dave Grohl, Pat Smear and Taylor Hawkins at Springbok’s L.A. offices, surrounded with pictures of their many, many friends over the decades, and an enshrined photo of Mel Brooks with the quote “It’s good to be the king,” from History of the World-Part I, embossed in gold, the 52-year-old Cobain is still very much the same man I talked to in a Chicago hotel the first time around. “I’ve never been very ostentatious with all the money I’ve earned, enough to last several lifetimes. The houses I own are fairly simple and spartan, in terms of wealth, I don’t like to go to fancy restaurants that often because I don’t like the scene even though I’m part of it, I could easily just live off of eating nothing but ramen and Kraft macaroni and cheese. I’m also not a business-minded guy. I don’t run Springbok, nor does Charlize. It basically runs itself, with all the people we’ve hired. I can still barely fill out my tax forms.”
It would be easy to dismiss these comments as disingenuous, as Cobain wanting to downplay himself for effect, were it not for the fact that everyone who knows him and his family on a day to day basis have all vouched for it. “Kurt is still very much a luddite when it comes to the deeper nuances of the industry,” Jennifer Todd, co-founder and CEO of Springbok, chimes in. “He knows enough to stay informed of new developments, but not enough to actually administrate. Charlize is better in that regard, but she’s also not quite there. If she were in charge of things, Springbok may not have crashed and burned, but it might never have grown beyond a standard vanity shingle. That’s not a knock on either of them, as they’re both immensely talented and compassionate, just stating the facts.”
At this moment, Nirvana is about to go out and promote their new album, a concept piece entitled Artificial Tension, mark the 30th anniversary of their debut album Bleach with a limited edition vinyl-only release of the 20th anniversary box set for Record Store Day, and mark the 20th anniversary of Springbok’s founding. The band, along with Theron, are also being named Disney Legends this year. The five members of the band clearly wanted to take stock of it all, and show that even now, at the height of their fame and influence, they still feel they have something to prove.
Q: By all rights, you’ve essentially accomplished everything you possibly could. You were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame five years ago, and you and Springbok are being named Disney Legends this year. That’s the type of position where many would feel that’s it and pack it all in.
KC: If anything, we’ve got a lot of mileage left in us. If we weren’t at the age of musicians keeping on making music and touring well into their 80s or 90s, then we probably would feel that way and say it’s the time to stop. But I feel that if anything, we’re still only in the middle of our career, not the end. The idea that rock and roll has a retirement age is pretty ridiculous.
DG: When you break it down, the really great acts are those that continue for decades, that weather every storm to keep on turning out new art, even if they’re not always in the most favorable of circumstances. I always get a thrill of entertaining crowds no matter where we are. For two, three hours on that stage, everything is right in the world and we can escape from our hassles.
Q: What would you say has really changed in terms of how Nirvana operates since the early days?
KN: Other than being bigger and working on concept albums? Nothing really. Kurt is still the one who comes up with the songs, we work our asses off to really get the sounds down, and each time we do is a big risk. We don’t go out with the album thinking, “we’ve got it made, this is another easy day for us.” No, we’re always thinking that somehow, we’ve reached the album that will turn everyone off and people will hate. Each one is a risk for us.
Q: Are Pat and Taylor full members of the band?
KC: Absolutely. I love having someone to work off with, as well as ensuring we’re louder for bigger places, especially when Taylor takes the drums and Dave comes out on guitar and sings.
PS: I’ve always been really good friends with them since the In Utero days, and I’ve always felt like part of the band. That was a real trial by fire for me, and it really prepared us for what was to come afterwards. I really feel that.
TH: I may seem to have the easiest time of everyone, since I only have to play a portion of the shows, but I put my all into it every night. I’ve even done some nights playing drums on a lot of the songs Dave normally does that for, to really build my chops. It’s been quite an experience for me, and I’m grateful.
Q: Did you really think you’d be as influential as you’ve become?
KC: Not at all. I certainly didn’t expect that we’d grow to what we are now, and I certainly didn’t think we’d be considered the heirs to The Beatles at all. In my heart, no one can ever be that, and I’ll always feel that way even if the rest of the world says otherwise. Simply put, I never thought the band would be in this position, and I never once imagined myself as an entertainment industry executive. Springbok was not a reality to me, even after it was founded 20 years ago.
Q: Springbok is considered the greatest success story of the 21st century. What do you think is responsible for that?
KC: Finding the right people to work with, to control things, freeing you from being a company director. It’s basically the opposite of when The Beatles launched Apple Corps, which really is the precedent for Springbok. Apple was intended to become everything and anything in the entertainment industry, but it didn’t have a leader. John, Paul, George and Ringo were incredibly naïve about how a business could be run, lots of people were hired and paid to do nothing, and lots of people took advantage of the breaking in new acts that was intended by taking the advance money and running. Then you add the whole Allen Klein situation, someone who didn’t care for the integrity of The Beatles or Apple, who even personally was responsible for George’s plagiarism lawsuit for “My Sweet Lord,” because he also represented the other act. Apple was then only able to succeed as a brand, much as The Beatles have stayed on as a brand.
DG: I certainly could never have come up with an idea for something like Springbok, and I never would’ve tried. I just don’t care at all about business, I want to get out and play. I speak for myself and the other guys, that only Kurt could’ve made that leap.
KN: At least it hasn’t turned him into another suit, that’s the best part. You gotta respect Kurt’s integrity.
Q: Among the projects Springbok has in the pipeline is Clint Eastwood’s film Richard Jewell. Nirvana was performing at Centennial Olympic Park that night.
KC: I still have nightmares about it. We were just having a great time onstage, performing for the MTV cameras, which was a real historic part of Olympics coverage. The audience was definitely enjoying themselves, and it felt real magical. Then we could see that people were starting to move back, wondering what that meant.
KN: I was in the middle of telling a joke to the audience when the bomb went off. MTV even captured it in their broadcast, it was chilling. The panic started to set in, especially when we saw it came from a sound and lighting tower, and Dave immediately shouted out for people to stay away from it, that the tower was going to collapse.
DG: Thankfully it didn’t, because someone had nudged that backpack a few inches. If that hadn’t happened, regardless of what Mr. Jewell had done, a lot more people would’ve died with that tower coming down.
Q: Is it true that you’re going to appear in the film as yourselves to reenact the performance?
KC: Yes, because that’s part of what drew us to the script, a chance to sort of exorcise some demons, that and the fact Mr. Jewell’s story needed to be told, and I wanted to ensure it was told respectfully.
Q: I imagine that it was a bit of a titanic struggle, between you and Clint Eastwood.
KC: It had to be done, because Clint intended something very different. He was going to really tear into his political biases to basically say that the “dirty liberal media and Democrat-stooge FBI” were purposefully in cahoots to railroad Jewell, that Bill Clinton was pushing the thumb on the scale for it, and that the reporter at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that broke the initial story was just a bitch on wheels who slept for sources and was personally driven to take Jewell out and make a name for herself. It was just beyond the pale, and I went right up to Clint and told him that he couldn’t do this, that it would be slander against a woman who was merely doing her job, and he would be doing Richard Jewell’s memory a disservice. Now he didn’t like that, and he definitely laid into me, into Springbok as a whole, in that way of his, saying he was going to pull the film away from us, from Disney, and get Warners to make it, since that’s where all his movies end up.
Q: How did you manage to come out on top?
KC: Jennifer’s really the unsung hero, she really went to the bat, and told the scriptwriter, Billy Ray, to try again and rework the material. She’s very blunt, and he basically made it clear that Clint’s reputation wouldn’t simply push into silence. She especially was going to go to the press and denounce the film quite viciously if he was going to pursue this path, and that we’d personally make it our mission to sink it. I think part of the reason he’s so hit and miss these days is because no one questions him, because they’re too in awe of his legend, whereas we dealt with him like a human being, took him down a notch. I’m glad we took on the project, because if we didn’t, he would’ve pulled out his blatant character assassination and smeared a reputable organization just to push his own agenda.
Q: Obviously, there are people who feel that you, Nirvana and Springbok have gotten too big, and that you’re ruining everything about our culture, that you’re overrated and need to simply die.
KC: Are their first names Matt and Trey? (Chuckles) No, in all seriousness, no matter who you are, not everyone will like you, and you’ve just got to roll with that. If you spend your time worrying about that and trying to win them over, then you become everything they accuse you of. Paul Stanley’s told me that time and time again. How do you think KISS is what it is, despite having legions of detractors or grizzled ex-fans who like to dogpile on them all the time? Because they simply don’t give a shit about complainers and know they’re a minority, when the real fans are the ones who show up every night.
DG: It’s a bit of jealousy too. They’ll never admit that, but it’s obvious.
PS: I read somewhere that during the French Revolution, a lot of them were actually envious of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette and the ruling class and wanted to be them, that they were just frustrated people who took their anger out to that extreme to compensate. It’s a very compelling theory.
TH: Meanwhile, we’re still rolling along, and this train ain’t stopping anytime soon.
Q: What do you think the future holds, especially in the next decade?
KC: I don’t have a fucking clue. I never have. That’s part of what makes the future exciting, not knowing what’s to come. If you do know, it’s pretty boring.
