This styling was also tried on 1100/1300 and unofficially on the Mini as well, though it seems to have simply have all 3 cars longer without necessarily being as space efficient as the original Mini, 1100/1300 and 1800/2200.
Cars that could have been:
- Thread starter Kalvan
- Start date
This styling was also tried on 1100/1300 and unofficially on the Mini as well, though it seems to have simply have all 3 cars longer without necessarily being as space efficient as the original Mini, 1100/1300 and 1800/2200.
I mentioned the 1100/1300 version in Post 59 and posted a link to it on the Austin-Rover Online website. Here is the link again.
https://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-an...designs/carrozzeria-designs-pininfarina-1100/
That may be true, but who cares about space efficiency when a car looks that good? I certainly don't.
To be more serious, is space efficiency as important in the 1800/2200 as the smaller cars?
Two quotes from the article on the Pininfarina, the Berlina Aerodinamica from the Austin-Rover Online website.
And
It could have potentially worked as an alternate Vanden Plas styling theme in place of the OTL theme.
A case could be made whether space efficiency is less important for a 1800/2200 type car, though it was a missed opportunity to not capitalize on said space efficiency by making the Mini, 1100/1300 and 1800/2200 hatchbacks from the outset (with three-box saloon variants being reserved for pre-Pininfarina 1800-styled Vanden Plas variants including Vanden Plas 1800 versions of the X6 Austin Kimberley / Tasman).
1975 Volkswagen Chicco - Essentially a prototype study for a Sub-Polo car (years before the Volkswagen Lupo) capable of seating and transporting 4 adults in reasonable comfort. It featured a length of around 3300mm, possible wheelbase of 2120mm and an estimated weight of around 630-650kg, powered by a 40 hp 900cc 3-cylinder engine pushing it to a top speed of around 81 mph or 130km/h.
Though not seriously considered for production in OTL, had it been given the green light it could have challenged other city cars like the Autobianchi A112, Mini / Innocenti Mini, etc prior to being replaced by the Lupo (though not before being updated like the mk1/mk2 Volkswagen Polo). It could have also spawned a 83+ hp 1-litre 3-cylinder G10 (or G20) Supercharged variant (think downsized version of the mk2 Volkswagen Polo G40) or a 92+ hp 1.2-litre 3-cylinder variant (think downsized version of the mk3 Volkswagen Polo GTi) to challenge similar cars like the Lancia Y10 Turbo, Honda City Turbo, Daihatsu Charade Turbo / DeTomaso / GTti, etc.
Though not seriously considered for production in OTL, had it been given the green light it could have challenged other city cars like the Autobianchi A112, Mini / Innocenti Mini, etc prior to being replaced by the Lupo (though not before being updated like the mk1/mk2 Volkswagen Polo). It could have also spawned a 83+ hp 1-litre 3-cylinder G10 (or G20) Supercharged variant (think downsized version of the mk2 Volkswagen Polo G40) or a 92+ hp 1.2-litre 3-cylinder variant (think downsized version of the mk3 Volkswagen Polo GTi) to challenge similar cars like the Lancia Y10 Turbo, Honda City Turbo, Daihatsu Charade Turbo / DeTomaso / GTti, etc.
Here is some more additional cars that could have existed (In a ATL for sure) if the automakers had allowed them.
Ford GN-34 (A model name was never chosen) - This mid-engine 2 seater vehicle was planned by Ford to supposedly compete with numerous European exotics. The same Yamaha produced 3.0 Liter 24 Valve DOHC that was offered in the Taurus SHO was going to be used in this vehicle as well (It was said that the same Yamaha produced engine was originally intended for this vehicle). Ford had chosen to axe this vehicle mainly in favor of getting the Explorer into production instead (Ford had only had the money to put either the Explorer or the GN-34 car into production).
Considering where the 2 seater market had went (Insurance costs for 2 seaters had been going up and many of the 2 seater vehicles outside the real Exotics had disappeared from the market before the turn of the century) and the SUV market taking off in the 1990's Ford had made a smart decision (A very profitable decision too) to bring out the Explorer instead.
Chrysler Liberty Car - This was Chrysler's planned response to GM's Saturn project by using High Technology to compete with the Japanese in the Small Car market regarding the Costs of the vehicles and was likely intended for other vehicles (Possibly replace Chrysler's K platform). Axed for unknown reasons.
Chrysler after it bought out AMC did eventually develop new automotive platforms to replace all of the K platform derivatives starting with the launch of it's all new LH platform (Which used the Eagle Premier/Renault 25 chassis as the starting point) in 1993 and finishing up with the 1996 Minivans which got redesigned from the ground up now using it's own dedicated platform (Chrysler's K platform had completed its phase-out at the end of the 1995 model year).
U.S. Market Renault Espace - In the early to mid 1980's American Motors had decided to bring the Renault Espace to the U.S. market in response to the introduction of Chrysler's minivans. The vehicle was exhibited at the 1985 Chicago Auto Show and was planned for a 1986 model year launch which ended up getting delayed due to negotiations with Matra (Which manufactured the Espace) progressing slower than expected over the pricing. The sale of AMC to Chrysler in 1987 permanently scuttled that idea and the Renault brand permanently withdrew from North America (Except Mexico) afterwards.
Ford GN-34 (A model name was never chosen) - This mid-engine 2 seater vehicle was planned by Ford to supposedly compete with numerous European exotics. The same Yamaha produced 3.0 Liter 24 Valve DOHC that was offered in the Taurus SHO was going to be used in this vehicle as well (It was said that the same Yamaha produced engine was originally intended for this vehicle). Ford had chosen to axe this vehicle mainly in favor of getting the Explorer into production instead (Ford had only had the money to put either the Explorer or the GN-34 car into production).
Considering where the 2 seater market had went (Insurance costs for 2 seaters had been going up and many of the 2 seater vehicles outside the real Exotics had disappeared from the market before the turn of the century) and the SUV market taking off in the 1990's Ford had made a smart decision (A very profitable decision too) to bring out the Explorer instead.
Chrysler Liberty Car - This was Chrysler's planned response to GM's Saturn project by using High Technology to compete with the Japanese in the Small Car market regarding the Costs of the vehicles and was likely intended for other vehicles (Possibly replace Chrysler's K platform). Axed for unknown reasons.
Chrysler after it bought out AMC did eventually develop new automotive platforms to replace all of the K platform derivatives starting with the launch of it's all new LH platform (Which used the Eagle Premier/Renault 25 chassis as the starting point) in 1993 and finishing up with the 1996 Minivans which got redesigned from the ground up now using it's own dedicated platform (Chrysler's K platform had completed its phase-out at the end of the 1995 model year).
U.S. Market Renault Espace - In the early to mid 1980's American Motors had decided to bring the Renault Espace to the U.S. market in response to the introduction of Chrysler's minivans. The vehicle was exhibited at the 1985 Chicago Auto Show and was planned for a 1986 model year launch which ended up getting delayed due to negotiations with Matra (Which manufactured the Espace) progressing slower than expected over the pricing. The sale of AMC to Chrysler in 1987 permanently scuttled that idea and the Renault brand permanently withdrew from North America (Except Mexico) afterwards.
Hatchback Minis, 1100/1300s and 1800/2200s in the 1960s. Interesting... In that case would there have been no ADO14 Maxi?
According to the AR website, the other problems with the Pininfarinas were that they would be difficult to "productionise" and expensive to make.
It wouldn't work on timescale grounds, because it was launched in 1968, but l like the idea of a "Big Aerodynamica" being launched instead of the ADO61 3-litre. I don't know if more would have been sold, but it's unlikely that less would have been sold.
This would be followed in 1973 by an Aerodynamica 1100/1300/1500 in place of the ADO67 Allergro and in 1975 by Aerodynamica 1800/2200 in place of the ADO71 Princess. Once again they may not sell as well as the OTL cars, but it's also unlikely they would have done worse.
According to the AR website there might also have been an Aerodynamica 1000 to replace the Mini...
https://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/carrozzeria-designs/blog-mystery-pininfarina-mini/
Edit: You had already mentioned the unofficial Mini Aerodaynamica. Sorry!
Hatchback Minis, 1100/1300s and 1800/2200s would probably have not necessarily butterflied away the Maxi, though the latter could have been a lot better than it was (e.g. no 1800 doors would allow for a 99-100-inch wheelbase making it much smaller and lighter, etc) or pretty much an early alternative to the Allegro from the outset featuring a range of 1300-2000cc engines (ADO16 later ADO22 being a 1100-1600cc car, with the Mini later Project Ant remaining a 848-1275cc car or even a 721-1275cc car). Also had the Maxi appeared earlier than it did the car could have also arguably looked more better given what was passed over for production during its development. - https://driventowrite.com/2019/05/08/128-vs-maxi-part-2-function-over-form/ (also see part 1 and part 3)
What could have worked to make the Pininfarina Aerodynamica concepts more easily productionized would be a composite styling theme of the former together with the Maxi-based Aquila concept. - https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/maxi-based-aquila-concept-car
An argument could be made that BMC did not need to produce the ADO61 3-litre, but rather should have acquired a more prestigious marque like Jaguar (as was the case in OTL) or even Rover (which was also a possibility in OTL), the latter's Rover P8 was planned to feature a fully hydraulic suspension system with similarities to BMC's own Hydragas suspension. Another reason why Rover in retrospect would have been a better fit for BMC instead of Jaguar. - https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/rover-p8/
The following would entail earlier PODs though OTOH BMC could have made MG into a more upmarket marque then they did in OTL (akin to Triumph), with Vanden Plas as an in-house version of Radford / Wood & Pickett featuring both pre-set (e.g. Riley / Wolseley after they have been discontinued in an ATL mid/late-1950s rationalisation) and cost-no-object customized versions of BMC models.
Morris meanwhile should have been differentiated from Austin (along similar lines to OTL Fiat and Autobianchi with the Primula/A112/A111) by producing a trio of early-60s Marina-type low-cost conventional RWD three-box saloons to retain traditional buyers that in OTL switched to other rivals upon BMC introducing its FWD range of cars (plus the fact it would have been significantly cheaper to produce conventional RWD with larger profit margins to offset the costs of the FWD cars). From an early-Escort or Viva HA analogue akin to an (1100-1300cc) A-Series powered DAF 55/66 (minus Variomatic) in place of the Morris Minor / Austin A40 Farina, along with (1100-1600cc) Ford Cortina and larger (1600-2000cc) Ford Corsair analogues. At least until the late-60s to early/mid-70s when FWD becomes more accepted by the wider public, whilst giving Morris and Austin separate identities.
P.S.
Going back to Pininfarina, BMC from the mid/late-1960s to early/mid-1970s could have instead followed a similar path to OTL Peugeot with regards to an alternative Pininfarina styling theme via the Peugeot 504, Peugeot 304, Peugeot 104 (- also see Mini 9X) and Peugeot 604 along with the Fiat 130, Lancia 2000 Coupe, IKA-Renault Torino etc.
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MatthewB
Banned
Thoughts on the 1954 Singer Hunter? Only 20 produced before Roots bought the company and shut it down.
Price with tax £975 in 1954 → £26,474.25 in 2019. That’s with air conditioning, automatic transmission, fog lamps and hydraulic brakes. Styling is more 1944 than 54, but it’s quintessentially British looking.
If this was successful it would have led to the Singer SMX Roadster. Just drop those low doors.
Price with tax £975 in 1954 → £26,474.25 in 2019. That’s with air conditioning, automatic transmission, fog lamps and hydraulic brakes. Styling is more 1944 than 54, but it’s quintessentially British looking.
If this was successful it would have led to the Singer SMX Roadster. Just drop those low doors.
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Thoughts on the 1954 Singer Hunter? Only 20 produced before Roots bought the company and shut it down.
Price with tax £975 in 1954 → £26,474.25 in 2019. That’s with air conditioning, automatic transmission, fog lamps and hydraulic brakes. Styling is more 1944 than 54, but it’s quintessentially British looking.
If this was successful it would have led to the Singer SMX Roadster. Just drop those low doors.
A number of pre-war PODs would have been needed to save Singer Motors from being acquired by the Rootes Group, let alone manage to retain its pre-depression position as the UK's 3rd largest carmaker.
Not a car as such but Aston Martin were looking at buying MG in the late 70s/early 80s. At least one MGB got Aston Martin styling.
MatthewB
Banned
Apparently Singer was integral to the foundation of Aston Martin.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin...on_Martin_Car_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1262861.jpg
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Intrigued by the scenario of a successful Singer Motors not only acquiring Riley Motors, but also Aston Martin / Lagonda (post-Ford) as well being the British analogue of Seat, Audi and Bentley.
MatthewB
Banned
I'd like to have seen a British version of BMW, where both motorcycles and automobiles are made by the same company. The only two chances for this would have been Triumph or Sunbeam.
- In 1945 the Standard Motor Company bought the Triumph car company. At the time Standard was one of the largest car producers in Britain, and also produced Ferguson tractors (later leading to the AWD Stag).
- Meanwhile, in 1951 BSA bought the Triumph motorcycle company for £2.5 million (£77,876,529 in 2019).
- At the time BSA also owned Daimler Motors, Lanchester Motors, and in 1954 bought Carbodies, the makers of the London black taxi. So BSA is obviously flush with cash.
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Reuniting the Triumph motorcycles and car divisions is technically possible though it requires PODs involving Edward Turner, Jaguar's William Lyons and Leyland's Henry Spurrier.
1- From William Lyon's bio (parts of page 84-85).
My note: Jack Sangster could have sold Triumph to such a company instead of BSA.
2- Again from William Lyon's bio (part of page 206).
My note: Leyland acquiring Rover instead of Jaguar in OTL led to the former overlapping to much with Triumph, whereas Jaguar could have been moved further upmarket (and was Jaguar's original intention at BMC prior to the disaster of British Leyland) from Triumph. The only requirement being Leyland's Henry Spurrier living a bit longer and retiring in 1965-ish instead of 1963.
As for BSA themselves, with the right PODs the BSA Cars division could have revived in place of Lanchester and together with Daimler could have become a successful British analogue of Auto Union / DKW (aka pre-VW Audi) and Mercedes-Benz (with the former also potentially featuring some elements of Honda and Suzuki).
It would have also probably been in BSA's interest to acquire Scott Motorcycles prior to WW2. - https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-british-motorcycles/scott-three-inspired-car-zmcz14mazbea
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Continuing from above, here's one of mine:
Timeline: Alternate Timeline #1A (Working title)
Unlike in OTL, Humber continued slightly longer and as a sort of parallel to today's Buick-type brands.
Humber LN sedan (name undecided)
Effectively a badge-engineered Hillman Avenger, this launched in 1970 alongside the Avenger.
The Avenger's 1.5-litre/72hp 4-cylinder was the only engine until 1973 (from October it got a 1.6-litre/69hp 4-cylinder), when a 1.8-litre/78hp 4-cylinder sourced from the Dodge 1800 sold in South America was available. No 1250 or 1300 engines were offered, and a two-door model was never produced.
Trim levels were limited to one version - all were denoted by engine size as 1500, 1600 or 1800.
Alloys were shared with the Sceptre.
Timeline: Alternate Timeline #1A (Working title)
Unlike in OTL, Humber continued slightly longer and as a sort of parallel to today's Buick-type brands.
Humber LN sedan (name undecided)
Effectively a badge-engineered Hillman Avenger, this launched in 1970 alongside the Avenger.
The Avenger's 1.5-litre/72hp 4-cylinder was the only engine until 1973 (from October it got a 1.6-litre/69hp 4-cylinder), when a 1.8-litre/78hp 4-cylinder sourced from the Dodge 1800 sold in South America was available. No 1250 or 1300 engines were offered, and a two-door model was never produced.
Trim levels were limited to one version - all were denoted by engine size as 1500, 1600 or 1800.
Alloys were shared with the Sceptre.
The Turner / Lyons collaboration could have also led to the development of Jaguar having its own brand of motorcycles, yet it would have made sense for the collaboration to serve simply as a vehicle to reunite the Triumph motorcycle and car divisions given the reputation of the latter and Jaguar's small size prior to being acquired by a larger company like BMC in OTL or Leyland in ATL. Otherwise Jaguar as a motorcycle manufacturer would have probably had a similar history to Maserati's motorcycle division. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maserati_(motorcycle)
Cannot really see a way to reunite the car and motorcycle divisions of Sunbeam, the former was owned by Rootes and the latter by Associated Motor Cycles. Rootes (minus Singer and other PODs) IMHO would have been better off being acquired by an ATL Leyland Motors instead of Chrysler.
As Leyland was said to have wanted to build cars under their own name in OTL (pre-BL), an ATL Rootes Group would have allowed them such an opportunity where the cars are renamed as Leylands and pitched below Triumph (and Jaguar) in terms of market position as a mainstream marque akin to Hillman (and the previous discontinued Standard marque) - Albeit at the cost of seeing seeing Hillman, Sunbeam, Humber, Commer and Karrier either discontinued or integrated into Leyland.
At least though ATL analogues of the Triumph Tigress and Triumph Tina could be sold as BSAs or/and Leylands without tarnishing the Triumph marque.
Have come to realise over the years there are going to be casualties either way when it comes to more viable scenarios where the British motor industry survives and thrives, along with benefits in Chryslers case as they can focus more on Simca (and any another European carmaker they acquire in ATL such as Borgward).
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MatthewB
Banned
My dad had both a Plymouth Horizon and Shelby Dodge Omni GLH Turbo in the 1980s. The latter was a hoot.
It could have also led to Chrysler approving of Simca's Mini-sized FWD replacement for the rear-engined Simca 1000 known as Project 936*, which is then replaced by the C2-Short Supermini prototype (either derived from the European 1100-based Horizon or the North American Horizon whose platform was allegedly a reversed-engineered Golf related to the Chrysler K platform* or both - in the latter's case it is possible a North American Horizon derived supermini would be akin to the mk3 VW polo since it along with the Lupo were derived from the mk2 Golf platform), followed later by a production version of the Chrysler Java which appears to resemble a Tritec engined precursor to the mk1 Smart Forfour / Mitsubishi Colt.
*-Project 936
1) - https://driventowrite.com/2017/03/19/simca-936-prototype/
2) - https://drive-my.com/en/retro-carss/item/2687-project-936-simca-s-mini-venture.html
*- Chrysler K platform, seem to recall reading about the later Neon and other Chrysler platforms being related to some degree with the K platform.
*- Below - ATL Chrysler Europe's / Simca's Supermini progression from 1960s to late 1990s
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