Cars that could have been:

Masked Grizzly

In a neutral/allied Italy scenario it seems Fiat had plans to develop a replacement for the Fiat Topolino called the Fiat 400, a 4-door 4-seater Fiat 700 project (the latter allegedly planned to feature an all-alloy 22 hp 735cc OHV engine with the only 700 prototype shown below being a 2-door model) and other projects such as the Fiat 1900 with both the Fiat 400 and Fiat 1900 projects being destroyed by a bomb in the night while they were being moved around for more development work during the war.

799px-Fiat_700_prototipo_al_Centro_Storico_Fiat.jpg


The Dante Giacosa PDF mentions the above as well as the following Italian language articles below (that deserves wider exposure along with an accurate English translation).

Part 1 - http://www.retrovisore.it/i-prototipi-fiat-degli-anni-40-parte-1/
Part 2 - http://www.retrovisore.it/i-prototipi-fiat-degli-anni-40-parte-2/
Another Article - https://www.michelemoraglio.it/fiat-700fiat-600-seconda-guerra-mondiale/
 
MatthewB

MatthewB

Banned
Studebaker Canada Minx/Bellett

2560px-Isuzu_Bellett_red_front_end.JPG


https://datsunforum.com/1571-2/

In August of 1965, a deal to sell Studebaker automotive operations to a Canadian consortium failed. Canadian Motor Industries (CMI) had already concluded a tentative deal with Isuzu – which was then independent of GM – to sell subcompact Isuzu Bellett cars AS STUDEBAKERS
 

Masked Grizzly

interpoltomo said:
i want to see how bad a yugo or lada suv could have been
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Autosoviet (and similar sites) would provide a rough idea of what was considered in OTL - http://www.autosoviet.altervista.org/main-english.htm

As for Yugo have always been intrigued by the idea of the Zastava (aka Yugo) 750/850 being replaced by an Autobianchi A112 based entry-level model until 2008. Whilst the 127-based Yugo Koral features larger 1.5-1.6 128 SOHC engines and 5-door hatchback body (plus other developments from the Seat 127 / Frua, Fiat 147 / Oggi / Panorama, etc), with the 128-based Yugo Skala featuring 1.5-1.6 128 SOHC engines.

Curiously the Autobianchi A112, Fiat 127 and Fiat 128 (along with the Fiat X1/9) are all said to be basically derived from modified (e.g. shrunken or lengthened) versions of the same platform that in Yugo's case with the Koral / Skala did not cease production until 2008. Additionally the 128 SOHC engine would eventually be enlarged to 1839cc for certain Brazilian market models. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_128_SOHC_engine
 
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sonofpegasus

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A Series of British might have beens from the BL heritage collection dating from the 1960's 70's and 80's. I remember little about them other than that the MG prototype (the Red one ) was based on a doner chassis from a small scale British sports car manufactures and was a fully functional demonstrator. Oh and I would have sold my sole for the MG, on looks sort of 1980's MX5 Mates with early Jaguar XK!
 

SwampTiger

Banned
Not specifically a car, what about the 1958 Bendix Electrojector electronic fuel injection system. If Bendix could have worked out the kinks and sufficiently hardened the system, It may have been viable in the early 1960's.
the experience of Chrysler's introduction, and ongoing issues with the system led Rambler to cancel introduction of the system in 1959.
 

Masked Grizzly

sonofpegasus said:
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A Series of British might have beens from the BL heritage collection dating from the 1960's 70's and 80's. I remember little about them other than that the MG prototype (the Red one ) was based on a doner chassis from a small scale British sports car manufactures and was a fully functional demonstrator. Oh and I would have sold my sole for the MG, on looks sort of 1980's MX5 Mates with early Jaguar XK!
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The following prototypes are the MG ADO34, ADO70 Calypso and the MG DR2/PR5.


The Wooksta! said:
Jaguar's XJ41/42

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https://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2013-07/friday-concept-jaguar-xj4142/

We kind of got it anyway - when they were casting about for the early version of the XK8 and Aston Martin DB7*, they dipped into the parts bin and dug this baby out. A friend of mine had a spin in the soft top at some point in the 80s and said it was fabulous.


*The DB7 has to be a contender for the most beautiful car ever designed.
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It would have been interesting to see Aston Martin evolve under Ford without the presence of Jaguar (with both the latter and Aston Martin evolving separately), perhaps their ATL analogue of the DB7 initially makes use of a supercharged 3.5 V8 equivalent of the AJ-V8 in place of the supercharged 3.2 AJ6 engine prior to the introduction of the Duratec V6-based V12 engine (even better if the latter is replaced by a Cyclone V6-based V12).
 

AdA

Chris Triangle said:
And of course that viper Jr reminds me of their next crack at an affordable roadster: the sharp-looking Dodge Demon concept.

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I've always thought that "Demon", alliterative though it was a lesser fitting name for this car than the almost perfect "Copperhead" as the vehicle, like the snake itself, is a tamer, more agreeable member of the viper family. Screw ZZ Top for ruining that.

Anyway, by all accounts, Dodge's would-be Miata rival was very close to production and the design looks the part; it is quite polished for a concept. But it is also hard to blame Chrysler for not taking the risk either. Few companies have had success in this tiny segment and Chrysler had much more pressing concerns at the time.

And then there's the adorable little Dodge Slingshot, which, had it been produced, would have filled a niche that's been vacant in the USA since the MG Midget left.
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Too bad Chyrsler had to pigeon hole Dodge as the macho redneck brand. They could have at least kept Plymouth around if they were going to do this.
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Anything the Slingshot could do, some variant of the MX-5 Miata could do better.
The Miata is so good it basically killed it's competition. Fiat gave up and bought it and now sells a Miata clone with an older fashioned nose and tail and Fiat engines as the 124.
 
Chris Triangle

Chris Triangle

AdA said:
Anything the Slingshot could do, some variant of the MX-5 Miata could do better.
The Miata is so good it basically killed it's competition. Fiat gave up and bought it and now sells a Miata clone with an older fashioned nose and tail and Fiat engines as the 124.
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The Demon would have been the Miata competitor. The Slingshot seems more like a Suzuki Cappuccino IMO.

And the idea that nothing can easily compete in the small roadster category may be true but it's not necessarily because the Miata is an uncatchable peer, at least, in technical termsq. The Toyota mr2 and Pontiac Solstice were great and had loyal fans. They weren't really better but they weren't markedly worse either. Lots of cars compete well even though they aren't considered "the best" in their segment, though since people may look for different qualities in cars what counts as best varies according to tastes. The market for small, affordable roadsters is very limited since such cars are not especially practical or utilitarian. Those who can afford one might already be affluent enough that they'd spring for a premium German roadster like the z4. Mazda has built a lot of loyalty and brand recognition for their Miata since everybody else decided not to bother with the segment for decades. There was no competition left when they introducedtthe Miata 30ish years ago. To break in requires commitment but the rewards are ultimately pretty small for the resources that takes.
 

VictorLaszlo

Timeline: Czechoslovakia not occupied by Warsaw Pact countries in 1968
Model Name: Škoda 720 (saloon) / 725 (estate)
Manufacturer: AZNP Škoda Auto
Model Type: family 4-door saloon / 5-door estate
Model Year: 1972
Origin: Mladá Boleslav, Czechoslovakia
Production Run: 1971 - 1979
Predecessor: Škoda 1202
Successor: Škoda 760 / 765

Engine: Front mounted 1.5L L4 Otto

Power: 63 kW / 87 PS @ 5300 rpm
Torque: 125 Nm @ 4000 rpm

Drivetrain: Front-engine, rear wheel drive.
Transmission: 4 speed manual / optional 3 speed automatic
0-100 km/h: saloon: 14.5 s (manual) / 15.8 s (automatic); estate: 15.5 s (manual) / 16.8 s (automatic)
Top Speed: saloon: 155 km/h (manual) / 145 km/h (automatic); estate: 150 km/h (manual) / 140 km/h (automatic)

Dimensions: 4380 x 1630 x 1410 mm (saloon) / 4420 x 1653 x 1460 mm (estate)
Wheelbase: 2550 mm
Weight: 1105 kg (saloon) / 1150 kg (estate)

MSRP (1972): Kčs 35.000,-- / GBP 1.295,-- / DM 7.795,--

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1972 Škoda 720 4-door saloon

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1972 Škoda 725 5-door estate

In 1967 the engineering department of AZNP Škoda Auto under its chief engineer Seidl* began to develop a successor to the by then quite outdated Škoda 1202. Seidl pushed for a water cooled front mounted engine (unlike the rear mounted one of the 1000 / 1100 MB) with 90 hp and a top speed of at least 150 km/h. By 1969 several prototypes had been finished and entered an extended testing programme. From the very start the Škoda 720 / 725 was developed to compete on western markets with cars like the Ford Cortina, Vauxhall Victor, Audi 75 / 80 or Renault 12. It was therefore optionally available with features no other eastern block manufacturer offered at the time like an automatic transmission, air conditioning, mechanical anti-lock disc brakes and even pneumatic suspension. That the body design was done by Giurgiaro did certainly also help to make the car a success on international markets. In late 1975 a hatchback model was added to the product line along with a 1.8l 110 PS sports engine (availible in all 3 body styles) and the already availible saloon and estate models received a face lift to match the look of the new hatchback.

IOTL he was sacked during the normalisation era as politically unreliable and his Škoda 720 / 725 project terminated.

skoda_720_01.jpg

1976 Škoda 720 GT 5-door hatchback with the optional 1,8l 110 PS sports engine
 

AdA

QUOTE="Chris Triangle, post: 18953663, member: 34149"]The Demon would have been the Miata competitor. The Slingshot seems more like a Suzuki Cappuccino IMO.

And the idea that nothing can easily compete in the small roadster category may be true but it's not necessarily because the Miata is an uncatchable peer, at least, in technical termsq. The Toyota mr2 and Pontiac Solstice were great and had loyal fans. They weren't really better but they weren't markedly worse either. Lots of cars compete well even though they aren't considered "the best" in their segment, though since people may look for different qualities in cars what counts as best varies according to tastes. The market for small, affordable roadsters is very limited since such cars are not especially practical or utilitarian. Those who can afford one might already be affluent enough that they'd spring for a premium German roadster like the z4. Mazda has built a lot of loyalty and brand recognition for their Miata since everybody else decided not to bother with the segment for decades. There was no competition left when they introducedtthe Miata 30ish years ago. To break in requires commitment but the rewards are ultimately pretty small for the resources that takes.[/QUOTE]



I've owned series 2, 3 and 4 Miatas. I bought a S2 in 1998, traded it for a S3 in 2006 (made a great deal) and bough a S4 in 2016. Currently my wife uses the S4 daily and my son the S3. We have more than 300.000km on Miatas. The cars are totally reliable and apart from tires (that are also cheap because they're not oversized) they cost an avarage of 100 euros per car per year to mantain, at official Mazda dealers. No other car in class could aproach that record. They are more pratical than the MR-2 and the (much pricier) S-2000, more reliable than any rival open top at any price, and handle perfectly. The Miata is to roadsters what the F-16 is to fighters jets and like the F-16 it killed it's competition.
 
Chris Triangle

Chris Triangle

AdA said:
QUOTE="Chris Triangle, post: 18953663, member: 34149"]

I've owned series 2, 3 and 4 Miatas. I bought a S2 in 1998, traded it for a S3 in 2006 (made a great deal) and bough a S4 in 2016. Currently my wife uses the S4 daily and my son the S3. We have more than 300.000km on Miatas. The cars are totally reliable and apart from tires (that are also cheap because they're not oversized) they cost an avarage of 100 euros per car per year to mantain, at official Mazda dealers. No other car in class could aproach that record. They are more pratical than the MR-2 and the (much pricier) S-2000, more reliable than any rival open top at any price, and handle perfectly. The Miata is to roadsters what the F-16 is to fighters jets and like the F-16 it killed it's competition.
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You have some very strong opinions about that car. Im quite familiar with the Miata and I am very fond of it. My family has owned three of which I've driven two. One was a 1990 with non-power steering and the other was an early 2000s second generation model. They're fun and handle like they're on rails but that doesn't mean that other cars can't offer a similar driving experience and that nobody should dare to make one.
 
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Kevin Renner

SwampTiger said:
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AMC Concept 80 van and AMC Cavalier
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The Cavalier was used to explore using a high degree of parts commonality. The left front and right rear doors interchange. Quarter panels and opposite front fenders start from the same stamping. Front and rear glass etc. Ah, crap. Swamp tiger beat me to it.

OK, call and raise. 71 AMX/3. Italian designed body. American I-I. At the time BMW who did some development work under contract said it was the stiffest body structure they'd ever seen. 170 mph top end
 
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