Canada Wank (YACW)

foresterab · Nov 3, 2009

Interesting development although I think the burocracy could be a big hinderence in fast moving decision processes (ie war declaration).

In regards to the language I know Cree and Ojibiwa can talk together informally...it's when talking about formal history and heritage that the difference comes out. So it will be interesting to see how much a mis-application of wording can corrupt things.

For example...

tetense mouneyo, mequoi in cree (and I appoligize as I've butchered the spelling of the words here) literelly translates as greatings white guy, nothings up

as opposed to:
mequoi mouneyo, tetense translates roughly as nothing (worthless) whiteman, hello

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 3, 2009

OK, people. No update today, but Nugax has worked on a map for the TL. After some discussion, we've changed a bunch of the borders from my early, primitive maps.

He pointed out that, e.g. Missouri didn't have its defined shape yet, so retconning its shape and size makes sense. The Indian Protectorate has had its borders changed, with the Canadians getting a bit more of the prime river bottom land, and the Indians getting a bit more in the north (OTL Wisconsin and Michigan)

OK, let's try to attach the map and see if it works. Nope doesn't upload.

link

OK, try following the link to get there.

Nugax · Nov 3, 2009

You can use [ img ] [ /img ] tags to make a picture appear inline in your post Dathi...

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
OK, people. No update today, but Nugax has worked on a map for the TL. After some discussion, we've changed a bunch of the borders from my early, primitive maps.

He pointed out that, e.g. Missouri didn't have its defined shape yet, so retconning its shape and size makes sense. The Indian Protectorate has had its borders changed, with the Canadians getting a bit more of the prime river bottom land, and the Indians getting a bit more in the north (OTL Wisconsin and Michigan)

OK, let's try to attach the map and see if it works. Nope doesn't upload.

OK, try following the link to get there.

Thande · Nov 3, 2009

Very good map, Nugax.

Interestingly Dathi's idea of a "Maximum Canada that's still recognisably Canada" is similar to one I posted in a thread some months ago, but with the addition of Missouri Terr. and Louisiana. (I considered adding those but IMO at the time I thought they would make it too 'UnCanadian'...I hadn't realised you could have them British but separate from Canada).

Epimethius · Nov 3, 2009

Interesting Map, really helps to make the situation clear. I hadn't realized that Tecumseh's indian protectorate did not extend up to the bottom of Lake Michigan. That will make them totally internally reliant, trade via the lakes is totally cut off from them, allowing them no access to easy shipping (and allowing some totally unscruopulous businessmen to rip them off with high shipping costs) or was that the point? Just curious.

Dan1988 · Nov 3, 2009

Great map, both of you!

KingByng · Nov 3, 2009

Shouldn't Oregon Territory be referred to by its British name, Columbia District? After all, it's 100% *Canadian now...

AuroraBorealis · Nov 4, 2009

Yaraday said:
Shouldn't Oregon Territory be referred to by its British name, Columbia District? After all, it's 100% *Canadian now...

Columbia District is only the southern portion of the region ( basically the Columbia watershed) and does not include Vancouver island. The north is New Caledonia District

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 4, 2009

Yaraday said:
Shouldn't Oregon Territory be referred to by its British name, Columbia District? After all, it's 100% *Canadian now...

Oh, it probably should, I suppose, but I think I will leave it. Authorial fiat, and all that.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 4, 2009

Epimethius said:
Interesting Map, really helps to make the situation clear. I hadn't realized that Tecumseh's indian protectorate did not extend up to the bottom of Lake Michigan. That will make them totally internally reliant, trade via the lakes is totally cut off from them, allowing them no access to easy shipping (and allowing some totally unscruopulous businessmen to rip them off with high shipping costs) or was that the point? Just curious.

The British decided that the lake shore was too valuable in a military sense to be left to an ally. Also, the Canadians want it for agricultural and commercial purposes.

Yes, the Indians are getting a bit of a raw deal. But, 1) it's a heck of a lot better than what they got OTL, and 2) this is trying to be a realistic ATL, not a 'sweetness and light' Utopia...

No, they are going to have some commercial guarantees, to the extent that any businessmen ripping them off won't be doing on transportation charges

foresterab · Nov 4, 2009

Dang...nice map...

It messed me up though because I started following the wrong rivers as references before I realized how much further south the border is now.

Question for you though...

We now have a multi-lingual, multiple religious nation with a couple of other juridictions under their control (territories and protectoreates). Does this get expanded to include some of the Caribean possesions as some of the former spanish/french/dutch/english islands become independent. This offers an island favorable access to the british empire while dealing with a government that might be more tolerent than Britian proper.

Thande · Nov 4, 2009

Somebody on another thread mentioned Nugax forgot British Miskitia in Nicaragua.

Nugax · Nov 4, 2009

Thande said:
Somebody on another thread mentioned Nugax forgot British Miskitia in Nicaragua.

Yeah I realised that, but Dathi also mentioned British support for the FRCA, so they might have given up the protectorate (or even used there influence to get the Mosquito coast to be a seperate state in the FRCA). Either way it'd take a minute at most to fix (especially considering I also need to correct Vancouver Island).

Archangel · Nov 4, 2009

Nugax said:
You can use [ img ] [ /img ] tags to make a picture appear inline in your post Dathi...

Excellent map!

Ming777 · Nov 4, 2009

Please continue this Dathi!

stevep · Nov 4, 2009

Dathi, Nugax

Great map.

Didn't realise the Indian state didn't reach the Lakeside or how narrow the Louisiana neck is between the US and Tejas. Could be a potential problem later on there.

Steve

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 4, 2009

foresterab said:
We now have a multi-lingual, multiple religious nation with a couple of other juridictions under their control (territories and protectoreates). Does this get expanded to include some of the Caribean possesions as some of the former spanish/french/dutch/english islands become independent. This offers an island favorable access to the british empire while dealing with a government that might be more tolerent than Britian proper.

To be honest, I'm not quite sure just where the Caribbean is going to fit in. They certainly won't be part of Canada in the next expansion.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 4, 2009

stevep said:
Dathi, Nugax

Great map.

Thanks, but thank Nugax. He did the hard work.

stevep said:
Didn't realise the Indian state didn't reach the Lakeside

My rough maps earlier did show Canadian control of the Lakeside. What Nugax talked me into was having white control of a bit more of the river bottoms, especially along the Mississippi, and basically swapping that land for a bit more of southern Wisconsin and Michigan.

stevep said:
or how narrow the Louisiana neck is between the US and Tejas. Could be a potential problem later on there.

Steve

My original idea was to go as far west as OTL Louisiana, and my crude maps (tried to) show that. Nugax talked me into the eastern border, and, hey, if he's willing to do such wonderful maps, he gets a little leeway, eh?

No, it's not going to be a problem. Remember that Tejas and Britain are allied ATM and that Mexico and the US are. Tejas is not going to be causing trouble for Britain.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 4, 2009

Ming777 said:
Please continue this Dathi!

Thank you, and welcome to the thread.

I certainly will, but I got whole swatches of bits that aren't quite ready, and couple of the posts that have to be really soon involve some calculation and thought, and I've got to figure out US presidential elections and the economy to figure out.... Not to mention effects outside North America (we've already seen the first, the New Englander base on the Falklands).

Also, my wife's home sick the last two days, and she has first priority on the computer in such cases

Anyway. There will be more updates coming. But the one-a-day I've been often managing is probably going to slow down quite a bit.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Nov 6, 2009

Famous and not so famous agricultural inventors.

minor update while I'm trying to work out rail mileages and immigration figures:

Famous and not so famous agricultural inventors.

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John Deere[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John Deere was born in Rutland VT on January 10, 1804 to a family of rather poor circumstances, which were worsened when his father disappeared. He was apprenticed to a local blacksmith, and learned the trade exceedingly well. He set up his own business, but it didn't succeed and he moved west to Moline in Iowa Territory (Iowa Territory ITTL extends to the east bank of the Mississippi river). Here he found great success, as there were few other blacksmiths in the area. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]When he found that some of his customers were having problems with plowing the tough prairie sod, he experimented with various ideas and came up with the cast-steel plow that was far more efficient than previous ones, and made plowing the prairie practical for the first time, thus opening up far more land for plausible white settlement.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cyrus McCormick[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]A local inventor, mechanic and blacksmith in Rockbridge county Virginia. Invented and improved many bits of farming equipment, including plows, machines for treating linen and hemp. His biggest disappointment was a reaper, which his father had spent his life trying to make, but which never found a local market. He would later claim that HIS reaper was far superior to contemporary models by Hussey or Price, but no one except Virginians believe that.[1][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Obed Hussey[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Inventor of the horse-drawn mechanical reaper in 1833 in Cincinnati Ohio. His models were the first practical mechanical assist in the harvesting process and were hugely successful for a while and were one of the tools that revolutionized agriculture at the time, together with Deere's steel plow.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]While Hussey's reaper had some significant drawbacks, it was the basis and inspiration for several improved models by other inventors. In particular, see Price, Owen. [2][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Owen Price[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Owen Price[3] was born in 1803 in Llanelli, Wales, fourth of 6 children. Emigrated to Canada as a child when his father took veteran's benefit land there after being released from service in the War of 1812. Apprenticed to a blacksmith, he quickly showed a mechanical aptitude and tinkered with all sorts of machinery. When the first Hussey reaper appeared in the area in 1835, he recognized its faults and spent some serious thought on how it might be improved. His first improvement, and perhaps most significant improvement was the revolving reel, which brought the grain into the reach of the cutter blades, thus allowing a much more measured pace through the grain field and less wastage. Slowly, by word of mouth, and then advertising, more and more farmers bought his machines. In 1839 he moved to Detroit, and built a factory there to produce his new model reapers. With both one of the best machines on the market, and an innovative marketing slogan “The Price is Right”, his sales quickly rose into the thousands per year. Price's “Canadian Harvester Company / Compagnie des Moissoneuses Canadienne” (with the logo where the middle is halfway between an H and an M), [/FONT]

–

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1 Cyrus Mccormick OTL, of course, found a market (although NOT locally), moved to Chicago and founded what later became International Harvester. Here, he's one of hundreds of local mechanics, who are minor footnotes in history. This Cyrus is a different person (born post PoD, and not quite as successful, whether at engineering or salesmanship, it's hard to tell. Perhaps it's telling that iTTL, the records make no mention of “Jo Anderson”.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2 Obed Hussey is the identical person to OTL, with a similar career. Without the early competition from superior Cyrus McCormick version, his reaper is the one that is seen as the 'first'.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]3 Owen Price is an ATL character, born post-PoD. His enhancements make a reaper as good as OTL McCormick's, and is the most famous name. The various models of his “Price Cutter” set the gold standard for reapers iTTL. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Believe or not, the name came first, then the puns.[/FONT]