Can Prussia rise again?

Ahab

How can we create a serious Prussian secssecionist movment in Germany after WW1?
We know that historaclly Germany saw the rise of tge Far Right after tge war, so its not so far fetched that regonal nationalisem will see its rise in Prussia as it breafly did in Bavaria.
After the war Prussia was tge heart of democracy in Weimar Germany, so it needs to be butterflied, but maybe not. Maybe the Prussians see themselves as the epitom of democratic civilization, and feel that they are held back by the rest of Germany.
Natizem can be thought as "Bavarian Barbarisem" and to loose any track in Prussia.
The Prussian Jungers can also think back about all the good days when they won three wars in a row, all by themseleves, only to loose because the southrones and the catolics draged them down.
Can Prussia truly achive its indipendence back? Can they think that the German project was a mistake? That they were better alone?
So, how do you think we can achive that?
 
English Nationalist

English Nationalist

David T said:
It's like England seceding from the UK or Russia from the USSR (both of which actually were proposed at times!).
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Yeah, I have a bet that we go sovereign only after everyone else goes there own way. Politically, Yorkshire might have a better chance but that is getting off topic...

Well, there is always the Prussia promoted by Action Francaise though that is more Brandenburg with a Baltic name.
FR-WW1-1915-French-plans.png


I suppose by whatever reasoning this occurs to what we would consider Germany and A-H, the Germanic populations in what would then be Poland could become linked to a Prussian identity. I would say at least one generation for this identity to start to rise, two for it to be the majority viewpoint. So sometime around 1950 at the earliest more towards the mid-60's more likely a Prussian identity and potentially a strong nationalist movement is present in what we would consider Germans in the appropriate regions. That is assuming is allowed to rise beyond Brandenburg.
 

Takonas

It really depends on what we truly define as "Prussian." However, I believe that because of Bismarck's political maneuvering and structure design, that there is a very small chance for a real Prussian independence/secessionist movement with OTL. I think the requirements for such an undertaking would effectively have to undermine the cooperation in the Franco-Prussian war and in the First World War. It would also have to undermine the accomplishments of Bismarck which would require a lot of effort. However, if a certain group was able to undermine these 3 events, then its quite possible that the Prussians could seek independence with the support of domestic and/or international powers.
(I would add more on, but I have no sources to confirm the politics of post-WW1 Germany so I would have no idea who would be needed in order to effectively control the Keys to Power for a independence/secessionist movement.)
 

The Avenger

Banned
Ahab said:
How can we create a serious Prussian secssecionist movment in Germany after WW1?
We know that historaclly Germany saw the rise of tge Far Right after tge war, so its not so far fetched that regonal nationalisem will see its rise in Prussia as it breafly did in Bavaria.
After the war Prussia was tge heart of democracy in Weimar Germany, so it needs to be butterflied, but maybe not. Maybe the Prussians see themselves as the epitom of democratic civilization, and feel that they are held back by the rest of Germany.
Natizem can be thought as "Bavarian Barbarisem" and to loose any track in Prussia.
The Prussian Jungers can also think back about all the good days when they won three wars in a row, all by themseleves, only to loose because the southrones and the catolics draged them down.
Can Prussia truly achive its indipendence back? Can they think that the German project was a mistake? That they were better alone?
So, how do you think we can achive that?
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What about adopting Roman Dmowski's proposal for an independent mini-state in the German part of East Prussia? This state would be closely linked to Poland but be nominally independent.
 
ennobee

ennobee

OTL, by 1918, Germany had already a 100 years of history of growing together instead of splitting up. Unified Germany was something of their version of Manifest Destiny. So I can see Illinois declaring independence in 1918 before I can imagine ANY German state doing the same. From how I see this period, it was rather the other way round with old Prussia, the Rhine region and Bavaria all fighting not fir independence but for being the most truest of Germans and by right the region that should go first in setting the course for the new Germany.

There is however one scenario I can think of: If during the collapse of the Keiserreich in 1918 Berlin and surrounding Prussia-Brandenburg would become solidly Marxist-Communist but the rest of Germany remained Capitalist, there might be a civil war which would result in a stalemate and eventually a breakaway 'New-Prussia'. Only that Communist Berlin would now actively do away with all ideas and values considered typical 'Prussian' while the rest of Germany would double down on them and in the end be more 'Prussian' than Prussia itself.
 

The Avenger

Banned
ennobee said:
OTL, by 1918, Germany had already a 100 years of history of growing together instead of splitting up. Unified Germany was something of their version of Manifest Destiny. So I can see Illinois declaring independence in 1918 before I can imagine ANY German state doing the same. From how I see this period, it was rather the other way round with old Prussia, the Rhine region and Bavaria all fighting not fir independence but for being the most truest of Germans and by right the region that should go first in setting the course for the new Germany.

There is however one scenario I can think of: If during the collapse of the Keiserreich in 1918 Berlin and surrounding Prussia-Brandenburg would become solidly Marxist-Communist but the rest of Germany remained Capitalist, there might be a civil war which would result in a stalemate and eventually a breakaway 'New-Prussia'. Only that Communist Berlin would now actively do away with all ideas and values considered typical 'Prussian' while the rest of Germany would double down on them and in the end be more 'Prussian' than Prussia itself.
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What you wrote here makes a lot of sense. However, please note that the victorious Entente can be the ones who will separate Prussia from Germany. After all, Polish politician Roman Dmowski proposed exactly that in 1919.
 

Ahab

Im mainly assking for a movment, not for sucsess. I do think that an independent prussia post ww1 is asb, but can an actuall idepedence movment be creared? One along the lines of the Bavarian secessonist movment, but more influencel and important. Who can head this movment?
 
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