There have been very few states that could be superpowers or hyper powers. I feel that Canada has the potential, if it is not already, to be a great power, though those have got a bit out of vogue, perhaps. And even if it isn't? It is well off, has a high quality of living, participates in only wars of its own choosing, and has fantastic relationships with their only land neighbor, being seen on almost siblings terms. Add to that a stereotype of being extremely polite, and you get the benefits of being a powerful state without as many responsibilities and liabilities.
Can Canada be a superpower?
- Thread starter Fred the duck
- Start date
I say this as a die hard Canadian Nationalist. No.
Not enough population, and wrong economic circumstances.
And frankly being a super power is just too much work. We've got better things to do.
Not enough population, and wrong economic circumstances.
And frankly being a super power is just too much work. We've got better things to do.
The British acquire French Louisiana, then fight the Americans a couple of times to keep it, and also merge it into Canada somewhere down the line. This may or may not also include Spanish Florida as well.
Whilst the Americans are busy having a friendly discussion over whether slavery is ok or not, "Canada" helps out the Anglo settlers west of its borders and relieves Mexico of having to bother with its northern provinces.
Later still, they purchase Alaska from Russia and coup their way into acquiring Hawaii.
Last step is incorporating the various British Caribbean islands as part of some reorganization during the last stages of the decaying British Empire.
Whilst the Americans are busy having a friendly discussion over whether slavery is ok or not, "Canada" helps out the Anglo settlers west of its borders and relieves Mexico of having to bother with its northern provinces.
Later still, they purchase Alaska from Russia and coup their way into acquiring Hawaii.
Last step is incorporating the various British Caribbean islands as part of some reorganization during the last stages of the decaying British Empire.
Last edited:
That behemoth would be Canada only in name (if that) but sure it would be a super power.
Last edited:
It sure is nice of the British to do all that for the sake of one of their colonies.
This has been great to read, thanks for responding! i'm looking forward to seeing new posts.
Canada can go the North Korea route and draft insane amounts of soldiers and pour massive amounts of money into the military. So maybe an army of 2 million-plus men (with the capability to expand to perhaps 10-11 million during war), and a much larger air force and navy.
I don't think the rest of the economy would like that, however.
I don't think the rest of the economy would like that, however.
I will give the OP a try:
Somehow WW1 starts a year early. Germany in a close run thing defeats the French army and captures the channel ports. France sues for peace shortly after the British declaration of war. Britain spends the next few years seizing Germany's african and Asian colonies while Germany clobbers Russia by 1916. While the war between Britain and Germany is cold, a declared end never occurs. Germany periodically does night bombing runs on Britain from France but all this does is engender prolonged ill will.
Fast forward to the 1940s. After an ATL Great Depression. The statue of westminster is butterflied and Britain is under the control of a fascist government. The periodic night raids over London lead to Britain dumping bio weapons on Germany. Germany responds by dropping their brand new atomic weapons. Britain agrees to a peace which gives Germany back their colonies and allows for Britain proper to become a German satellite.
The British royalty abdicate to Canada and rally their empire from its new capital in Ottawa. Indian independence is smashed with chemical weapons. Canada allies with the US against Germany and the USSR in an alt-cold war. India gains their independence in the 1970s. Eventually Germany and the USSR politically fragment in the 2000s. Canada still has the world's fourth largest military and still has rich colonies such as Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa. All of their nukes and air craft carriers are from the 1970s, but insurgent China and Japan are still behind them militarily...for a short while.
Somehow WW1 starts a year early. Germany in a close run thing defeats the French army and captures the channel ports. France sues for peace shortly after the British declaration of war. Britain spends the next few years seizing Germany's african and Asian colonies while Germany clobbers Russia by 1916. While the war between Britain and Germany is cold, a declared end never occurs. Germany periodically does night bombing runs on Britain from France but all this does is engender prolonged ill will.
Fast forward to the 1940s. After an ATL Great Depression. The statue of westminster is butterflied and Britain is under the control of a fascist government. The periodic night raids over London lead to Britain dumping bio weapons on Germany. Germany responds by dropping their brand new atomic weapons. Britain agrees to a peace which gives Germany back their colonies and allows for Britain proper to become a German satellite.
The British royalty abdicate to Canada and rally their empire from its new capital in Ottawa. Indian independence is smashed with chemical weapons. Canada allies with the US against Germany and the USSR in an alt-cold war. India gains their independence in the 1970s. Eventually Germany and the USSR politically fragment in the 2000s. Canada still has the world's fourth largest military and still has rich colonies such as Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa. All of their nukes and air craft carriers are from the 1970s, but insurgent China and Japan are still behind them militarily...for a short while.
No. 90% of Canada is uninhabitable wilderness (Arctic tundra, the Canadian Shield, the Rocky Mountains). It is not practical for Canada to have the population base or industrial base to support Great Power standing.
I doubt it could be a superpower.
A regional power, sure - there's been a few good TLs around here that have the Canadian Forces being beefed up considerably. Still small, OK, but better equipped, with some heavier units... Not enough to be a superpower, but enough that they're able to undertake more expeditionary deployments into trouble spots.
A regional power, sure - there's been a few good TLs around here that have the Canadian Forces being beefed up considerably. Still small, OK, but better equipped, with some heavier units... Not enough to be a superpower, but enough that they're able to undertake more expeditionary deployments into trouble spots.
The problem with being a regional power is that Canada's only land neighbour is already a superpower.
Historically I don't think you can get to fascism anywhere, let alone in Britain, without something like the politics of the aftermath of the Great War.
I'm going to side with those who say that Canada- within OTL borders at least- cannot support a large enough population, and thus economy, to qualify as a superpower by modern standards. I have walked some of that unpopulated territory and there is a reason it is unpopulated. Not to mention that Canadians are simply too cute and cuddly to throw their weight around like that. I mean, c'mon- not liking Canadians is like not liking puppies or sunshine. They're awesome.
You would have to have Confederation about a decade earlier. Industrialization starting earlier. Railroad development earlier. Purchase of Alaska before the U.S. can do so. A policy of vigorous recruitment of people from Scandinavian countries and other places when folks don't mind cold weather. Maybe some Russians? Early emphasis on science and technology in education; something equivalent to the Morrill Act. Expanding immigration to all Europeans and guaranteeing conditions of life better than those in the United States, so the immigrants don't go south simply because of the weather. Integrating the national economy without barriers between the provinces. The belt one hundred miles wide above the border stretching over 3,000 miles can sustain a population larger than one might think, especially if the country rapidly urbanizes. Non-European immigration as early as possible, perhaps beginning right after World War Two. Taking in ALL the Jews trapped in Germany and as many as possible from Eastern Europe. Most important, a culture of vigorous and self-confident innovation in science, technology and business. It is conceivable that such a Canada could be the second greatest economic power on the planet (after the U.S.) with such policies, but it would require leaders of extraordinary vision (think: generation after generation nonstop of Alexander Hamiltons and Pierre Trudeaus dating back at least to the 1830s). I suppose that somewhere in the near-infinite multiverse there is a time line that produces this. Maybe even one (if the South wins the Civil War) in which Canada is stronger than a territorially weakened U.S.
Last edited:
With a post 1900 POD, it's impossible. Even with a pre-1900 POD it's fairly unlikely. But with a post-1900 POD I'd say avoiding the Great War would be an absolute must. The Canadian economy was going gangbuster and population growth was massive in the era. If that trend can last another decade and the world wars are avoided I can easily see Canada with 60+ million people today. Not a superpower, but still much stronger than OTL.
The Canada that existed in our timeline would never have sat out the Great War.
Honestly, the OP only asks for Canada to be a superpower. With changing definitions, it could certainly be part of a superpower (depending on how you look at it, it already is). Go about it in a Confederated Empire/integrated Anglosphere manner, and you could potentially have Canada being the leading members of an Alliance that acts as a superpower.
But for the closest thing to a superpower on its own, and you'd have to look at Canada in the A4 in Calbear's timeline. One of the top 5 nations, the others of which are Great Britain, Australia, the US, and India, but the Anglo nations are so integrated they practically act in concert.
But for the closest thing to a superpower on its own, and you'd have to look at Canada in the A4 in Calbear's timeline. One of the top 5 nations, the others of which are Great Britain, Australia, the US, and India, but the Anglo nations are so integrated they practically act in concert.
Sorry if I was confusing I didn't mean to imply that Canada should or would have sat out the Great War, what I meant was that it would be beneficial if the wars never happened.