And Libya and Syria according to the wiki?
But it was mainly the three the US is already at war with ITTL
Bush vs. The Axis of Evil - TL
But it was mainly the three the US is already at war with ITTL
I write dictators in general as stupid - Hitler starting a war with Italy just to kill Jews being just one example, or Nashis believing in underwater hyperboreaan civilisations.
Yes, the underwater Hyperborean civilizations part in particular seemed like "Fino-Korean hyperwar" level idiocy. What I mean by this is that it looks like the kind of thing that's more "This has to be a stupid Reddit/Tumblr/4Chan meme made by an idiot with a very misguided idea of what being funny is, no one could seriously believe in this complete nonsense, and anyone who claims to do so is lying."
I mean, given some of the things modern dictators have pulled, it's hard to argue with that.
The only one I can think of who was an odd exception was Franco. Evil bastard, yes, but he was smart enough that he wasn't wedded to a particular way of doing things: the moment he realised autarky didn't work, he switched to free-market capitalism.
I mean, given what Himmler got up to in Wewelsburg and given how Eric Gairy, the Prime Minister turned dictator of Granada, was obsessed with UFOs, as just two examples...it's not exactly unlikely, I have to say.
OTOH, in Footprint of Mussolini Castro is very canny, managing to take power and palling up to the United States rather than going Red. And holding on, IIRC, until an incident involving a scandalous affair comes to light.
(Yes, I own the ebook versions of both OP's TLs
)
They civilians in the keys could coordinate with the police. Not going on the offensive, but for defending individual buildings and homes from the "trespassers".
...but that's not stupidity. You can be a genius political operator and a fantastic demagogue like Hitler was and still hold views considered outre or insane.
He also didn't start a war with Italy 'just to kill Jews.' I'm not sure where you got that.
That was a weakness in FoM and its a weakness here too (FoM's fake moon landing comes to mind, about as plausible as green men from Mars giving the Soviets rocketships themselves (in general the lack of understanding of how the Soviets worked was pretty blatant across that TL but I digress)). Kim wouldn't act the way he's portrayed here, his regime is focused on self-preservation and any war with the US is a death warrant. The North Koreans know this.
And Castro would NEVER start a war with the United States. No discussion to be had here.
I disagree that dictators are stupid in general, otherwise they never would've have lasted as long as they did nor maintain popular support. Pinochet, Suharto, Deng Xiaoping, and Park Chung Hee are examples of dictators that still have lasting popularity because people claimed they had good policies. Doesn't change the fact that they were still horrible humans.
I mean North Korea ending up in the war had to happen for the concept. I agree it could have rested less on Kim being stupid/evil and more on fundamental factors and North Korean fear of American attack.
What US forces are in the area to respond to the NKs? I don't think they know that NK has MiG 29s at this point in time. I get the impression that NK would inflict the most casualties on the US and might break their will to fight.
(I also assume China will send weapons and equipment, or volunteers to test their weapons performance against Western tech)
(I also assume China will send weapons and equipment, or volunteers to test their weapons performance against Western tech)
I think China would just send weapons, because that can at least be plausibly denied as "well, yeah, we sold weapons to North Korea, but we didn't expect them to use them to attack the United States. Honestly^^." Chinese volunteers would not slip in as easily as in 1950.
"dissension" is putting it very very mildly lol, but happy to see it mentioned nonetheless.
Speaking of Kissinger, all these wars are going to make him work overtime lol.
No, at least not far enough to see that. What parts I have read had many of the same issues as other timelines by the author, but I felt the need to actually voice my criticisms when this timeline began - namely, choosing a narrative and then bending historical reality to fit it ('I wanted a war with Hezbollah so I made them do 9/11'), rather than writing a timeline as a natural series of events.
That's just my beef though. Author is obviously perfectly within his rights and I've nothing against him personally.
Probably not direct intervention but China would still send supplies. It can't allow pro-US Korea being at border of PRC even if it is fault of North Koreans.
Why then you claim things about TL what you haven't read?
He literally did it.
Hitler first tried to deport the Jews to Italy because Musso let him believe that his intentions were to have them in conditions equivalent to those of concentration camps (that was more Hitler's belief than anything else; we might question the logic of Hitler actually believing that when Musso did not even trying to hide his sympathy for Jews, but I digress).
Then Hitler became so enraged when he learned that the Italians were actually treating the Jews well that he did the equivalent of saying "if you want something (the extermination of the Jews) done right, you have to do it yourself" before order the invasion of Italy.
Reasons? "Because I can".
Goals? "KILL ALL THE JEWS, KILL THEM KILL THEM AAAAAAAAAAAA"
Osan AB: F-16C/D, A-10 Thunderbolt, HH-60 Pavehawk, U.S. Army Patriot Missile battery, in addition to the ROKAF F-16C/Ds
Kunsan AB: F-16C/D plus ROKAF F-16C/Ds
There are also AH-64 Apaches in South Korea.
In Japan, there are F-15C/D in Kadena AB and F-16CJ/D at Misawa AB.
The USS Kity Hawk is the main carrier in Yokosuka, followed by some Ticos and Burkes in the same homeport and an amphibious assault ship and two LSDs in Sasebo.
More like China would leave the North Koreans on their own or let the PLA dispose of Kim to impose a pro-Beijing leader. You are right that Chinese volunteers won't be able to get away in 2002.
Important to note that China in 2002 isn't the China of 1950-51. It just entered the WTO and is still recovering from Tiananmen. It's military is still not in the best shape considering the Tiananmen Square, massacre, U.S.-EU arms embargo, and being humiliated in the 1995-96 Taiwan Strait Crisis.
Last edited:
I was referring to Hitler's invasion of Italy iotl and his occupation of a swath of Northern Italy/creation of the Social Republic, I wasn't aware this was a plot point in FOM. I thought the implication was that IRL, after Mussolini was deposed, Hitler set up a puppet regime solely to kill Jews - that's my bad for misunderstanding/lacking context on the post I originally replied to.
That being said what you say doesn't sound like a very accurate portrayal of Hitler. Implying he did what he did solely because he was an angry guy who hated Jews is flanderization. Not that he wasn't angry and didn't hate Jews but you know what I mean.
Last edited: