Brazilian Pacific Coast

Femto

Femto

Banned
Could Brazil conquer even a small bit of a pacific coast? I know waging war in the Andine region would be almost impossible but suppose D. Pedro I maintains Uruguay, pacifies the internal politics and stays in Brazil instead of going for Portugal, could he wage an opportunistic war to seize Bolivia? Maybe he could make an alliance with the Chileans and Paraguayans to counter Bolivia and Argentina.
 
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Monter

There is the Amazon and/or the Pantanal before even getting to the Andes, the Brazilian interior was already barely inhabited during the 19th century, there is little logistical or demographic support for a march to the west.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Monter said:
There is the Amazon and/or the Pantanal before even getting to the Andes, the Brazilian interior was already barely inhabited during the 19th century, there is little logistical or demographic support for a march to the west.
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It is possible to make a path avoiding the Amazon Rainforest. Brazil doesn't need to conquer northern Bolivia to go for the Pacific.
 

Analytical Engine

Wild idea: how about a Brazilian seizure of Panama, or a Brazilian Panama Canal?

Otherwise, it gets a Pacific island, which is technically made part of Brazil?
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Analytical Engine said:
Wild idea: how about a Brazilian seizure of Panama, or a Brazilian Panama Canal?

Otherwise, it gets a Pacific island, which is technically made part of Brazil?
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I was thinking more along the lines of having a direct land path from São Paulo to the Pacific. This would mean a lot nowadays.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Something like this
brazil.png
 
Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)

Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)

Femto said:
Something like thisView attachment 520298
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Pretty unlikely... as @Monter said just above, this region is covered by the swamp-heavy Pantanal, which was sparsely populated in the period (barring strategic places such as Corumbá, and even these were frontier outposts). Power projection from the littoral region, where the economic and demographic powerbase lies, is borderline (pun non intended) impossible. Brazil had logistical difficulties enough warring with Uruguay, which is just south of it and without serious geographic barriers.

Now, as someone mentioned, the requeriments could be fulfillled by Brazil acquiring some piece of territory in the Pacific. Perhaps some islands in the heretofore uninhabited Patagonia, or something like that.
 
Gukpard

Gukpard

Grey Wolf said:
Yes, I think taking the whole country is the only logical route
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It id also the only non bordergore way, the map gets very smooth with a Brazilian Bolivia.

That being said, the infrastructure between Sao Paulo and Bolivia is from.horrible to non existent, and Bolivia is a very mountainous country so it would behellish to conquer it, maybe as bad as the Paraguayan war. Plus I dont think the USA or Britain would allow such a thing.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Gukpard said:
It id also the only non bordergore way, the map gets very smooth with a Brazilian Bolivia.

That being said, the infrastructure between Sao Paulo and Bolivia is from.horrible to non existent, and Bolivia is a very mountainous country so it would behellish to conquer it, maybe as bad as the Paraguayan war. Plus I dont think the USA or Britain would allow such a thing.
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Would Britain and the US even care that much about Bolivia? There were a bunch of times the two had bigger things to be concern about in the 19th century. Also, Brazil could partition Bolivia with Peru and Chile, making the world care even less. I feel the most problematic issue would be logistics and an Argentinian rear attack.
 
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Evan

Femto said:
Would Britain and the US even care that much about Bolivia? There were a bunch of times the two had bigger things to be concern about in the 19th century. Also, Brazil could partition Bolivia with Peru and Chile, making the world care even less. I feel the most problematic issue would be logistics and an Argentinian rear attack.
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If Brazil partitions Bolivia with Chile, I think Chile's going to take all the Pacific coast.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Evan said:
If Brazil partitions Bolivia with Chile, I think Chile's going to take all the Pacific coast.
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That's not necessarily the case. Brazil can conquer Bolivia by itself and then give pieces to Chile and Peru to appease them and the great powers. Chile could get more or less the same territory they got in the War of the Pacific and Brazil could get that coast part that Peru got while giving Peru some inland territory.
Borders_Chile_1879_and_2006_SP.png
 
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Gukpard

Gukpard

Femto said:
That's not necessarily the case. Brazil can conquer Bolivia by itself and then give pieces to Chile and Peru to appease them and the great powers. Chile could get more or less the same territory they got in the War of the Pacific and Brazil could get that coast part that Peru got while giving Peru some inland territory.View attachment 520454
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Assuming this happens, it still would be unfeasible for brazilians to travel to pacific even in modern times due the bad infraestruture... I also believe that Bolivia might be even worse developed than OTL.
 
Femto

Femto

Banned
Gukpard said:
Assuming this happens, it still would be unfeasible for brazilians to travel to pacific even in modern times due the bad infraestruture... I also believe that Bolivia might be even worse developed than OTL.
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Its been a few years that China is planning to build a railway in that region so I don't think it would be impossible to travel. And the region would probably be richer cuz Brazil would invest more than it would get taxing the population.
 
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Gukpard

Gukpard

Femto said:
Its been a few years that China is planning to build a railway in that region so I don't think it would be impossible to travel. And the region would probably be richer cuz Brazil would invest more than it would get taxing the population.
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Not impossible for the government and the richer classes, but the average low and middle class brazilian it would be. This would protect the bolivian and the native-bolivian control in the long run because colonization and cultural exanges would be nearly impossible.
 

David II

Unlikely I'd say. In c. XIX Bolivia wasn't a threat for Brazil, even Chile when they were fully mobilized during the War of the Pacific, had problems in peruvian sierra due to attacks from montoneras (indigenous and peruvian troops). Bolivian montoneras wont make it easy for Brazil. They first need to build enough infrastructure to supply their troops across the pantanales and the rainforest, then mobilize them for hundreds of kilometers just to face fierce montonera resistance in the arid altiplano over 4000 meters above sea level and even if they win, they'll need to build more infrastructure to connect their new territory with the rest of the country because Bolivia hasn't infrastructure at all. The very first railways were built in the Atacama coast by private Anglo-Chilean Company of Salitre and Ferrocarril de Antofagasta. Would Brazil have enough resources to do that? Even if they do; Argentina, Peru and maybe Chile will not like the idea of an expansionist Brazil and alliances and treaties might be signed. It's just too risky and unlikely.
 
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Monter

Femto said:
That's not necessarily the case. Brazil can conquer Bolivia by itself and then give pieces to Chile and Peru to appease them and the great powers. Chile could get more or less the same territory they got in the War of the Pacific and Brazil could get that coast part that Peru got while giving Peru some inland territory.View attachment 520454
Click to expand...
You're reading that map wrong, the "territory Peru got" was actually Peruvian territory that the Chileans conquered after the War of the Pacific.
 
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