Def not Weld, way too moderate
Molinari is a good call to do something with; too few TLs use her
Bicentennial Man: Ford '76 and Beyond
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
Molinari is a good call to do something with; too few TLs use her
Is this implying that the Warsaw Pact falls apart earlier? And if so, does that mean the USSR reforms itself enough to prevent the collapse? I think you implied he had a successor, but you left it vague on the survival of the USSR. If it makes it, how would 90’s Soviet culture look like?
If leftist guerrillas in the Third World are openly questioning Moscow, does that imply that a new financier may come from Beijing?
I don’t know Molinari, but keep in mind that Reaganist conservatism was just basically nostalgia for the 1950s that got validates through dumb luck
And then kept alive through neoliberalism, Fox News and goodness knows what else.
With Reagan out and what happened with Ford, the GOP need to change and adapt since the bottom’s collapse. Though honestly, I figured the folk like Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter and Lowell Weicker who rose in the 1990s would become the new face of the GOP or part of it here.
Looking forward to seeing what happens.
Last edited:
And nothing of value was lost.
Fun fact, IOTL after elements of the Sinisalo faction were expelled from the original Communist Party of Finland, they reformed, adopted the name Communist Party of Finland (Unity). A name so strikingly ironic given how their new party came about because of nearly two decades of disunity and rivarly within the old party before finally being expelled. The irony didn't fade one bit as time passed, as in 1988 hardliner elements of this new party broke off, forming the new Communist Worker's Party, accusing the party leaders of revisionism and for having distanced too far from Marxist-Leninist ideological principles.
Maybe, maybe not. There's a lot of ways that the WarPac could unravel without OTL's "and then one day in 1989 it all went to shit." But a 90s USSR is one of the aims of the TL, yes.
And China will have its own issues soon enough, so Third World guerillas will just have to make do with Havana in the meantime lol
They'll be part of it, though certainly not the chief figures. Specter in particular was more conservative than his present-day reputation suggests, he was just mainstream by 1970s/80s standards and then Gingrich happenedI don’t know Molinari, but keep in mind that Reaganist conservatism was just basically nostalgia for the 1950s that got validates through dumb luck
And then kept alive through neoliberalism, Fox News and goodness knows what else.
With Reagan out and what happened with Ford, the GOP need to change and adapt since the bottom’s collapse. Though honestly, I figured the folk like Olympia Snowe, Arlen Specter and Lowell Weicker who rose in the 1990s would become the new face of the GOP or part of it here.
Looking forward to seeing what happens.
Communists and splintering over accusations of "revisionism," name a more iconic duo
Okay, now I get it and fair enough here. Though honestly, it also depends on how much gets done. After all, universal healthcare was in serious talks prior to Watergate and they'll definitely make a comeback, especially with folks like Ted Kennedy and the like still around for this.
Looking forward to seeing what you do and I hope we can inspire the other.
It'll be interesting to see who succeeds Palme and potentially leads the Social Democrats back to power in '85. Even if it'll only be mentioned in passing.
I'm currently listening to Ingvar Carlsson's latest book and it seems like he had no real ambition to become PM and was dead set on leaving politics at the same time as Palme had the assassination not happened. But I suppose he could be could be convinced to take charge if enough people around him wanted him to. Or Kjell-Olof Feldt could take charge and lead the party head first into neoliberalism, or Anna-Greta Leijon could become Sweden's first female PM 30+ years earlier than OTL, or maybe Thage G. Peterson could be given the job, or maybe someone completely different.
I just hope the Soviet recollect themselves and export the worker’s revolution to the Middle East
I think considering how this conflict has gone the Social Democrats aren't getting back into power this decade. Falldin is literally the man who beat a superpower.
Definitely!Okay, now I get it and fair enough here. Though honestly, it also depends on how much gets done. After all, universal healthcare was in serious talks prior to Watergate and they'll definitely make a comeback, especially with folks like Ted Kennedy and the like still around for this.
Looking forward to seeing what you do and I hope we can inspire the other.
Good question! My suspicion is that TTL’s SocDems, having now had Palme lead them into three losses and nearly a fourth (Pinochet’s coup bailing him out a few days before the polls in 1973), will want to go in a very different direction, so that probably takes Carlsson out regardless of if he wanted the job. Peterson didn’t really get good portfolios until the late 80s so it’s hard to see him being the top man (as opposition leader) this early here. Leijon is certainly an interesting idea.
The q for me is if they want a hard shift towards the center with somebody like Feldt, though, or more of a “let’s go back to what worked with Erlander.” Who would embody the latter though I don’t really know. Lennart Bostrom maybe?
EDIT: On second read Bodstrom seemed very apologetic towards the USSR so maybe somebody like Anders Thunborg instead lol
I was thinking 1988 at the earliest
Last edited:
As for healthcare in the U.S. I have a modest proposal that Carey could carry out, if you want to have an Obama-equivalent in the 2000s who substantially overhauls healthcare. Instead of universal healthcare or a public option, how about ‘Careycare’ being a four pronged attempt to give healthcare to millions.
1. Raise Medicaid Eligibility to cover those making 125% of the poverty line or less. Poverty line in 1981 was $9,287 ($31,172.14 in 2023 money) so an increase to 125% would be: $11,608.75 ($38,965.17 in 2023 money).
2. Lower Medicare enrollment age from 65 to 63, with people able to “buy in” at 62.
3. Allow insurances to cross state lines. This won’t really do much but it looks good and is something Republicans harp on a lot so it can defang them of that by saying the Democratic controlled Congress is appeasing the GOP. And who knows, maybe the inter-state competition between insurance companies could drive costs down.
4. Insurance companies can’t turn away people with pre-existing conditions.
5. If possible get rid of HMO plans that are referral based and replace them with the PPO system. If everyone’s plan is a PPO I would think it could keep prices steady, maybe slightly higher than HMO but hopefully not by much. That way anyone can go anywhere to get their healthcare instead of being limited to certain hospitals/doctors/institutions.
6. Establishment of tax deductible Health Savings Accounts capped at $300 per year ($1,006.96 in 2023 money) to help cover out-of-pocket healthcare costs.
7. Expand medical tax deductions/tax credits. Any and all medical expenses higher than 3% of Adjusted Gross Income in any given year can be tax deductible. This lowers it from 7.5% AGI to 3%, allowing more people to claim their medical expenses on their taxes to lower tax burden.
I know Carey has to be careful with the economy as the ESA is his big focus, but the government could pay for this while the economy recovers. Maybe a tax of junk food/tobacco and cigarettes to help pay for it while simultaneously trying to make the average American a smidge healthier.
@KingSweden24 I completely overhauled my post, just in case you want an Obama equivalent to do universal healthcare or public option. Maybe even have Carey do CHIP healthcare but that would be cool to see a Republican president do in the 1990s, or at the very least a variation of it with it being expanded upon to match what we have now by a Democrat president in the 2000s.
1. Raise Medicaid Eligibility to cover those making 125% of the poverty line or less. Poverty line in 1981 was $9,287 ($31,172.14 in 2023 money) so an increase to 125% would be: $11,608.75 ($38,965.17 in 2023 money).
2. Lower Medicare enrollment age from 65 to 63, with people able to “buy in” at 62.
3. Allow insurances to cross state lines. This won’t really do much but it looks good and is something Republicans harp on a lot so it can defang them of that by saying the Democratic controlled Congress is appeasing the GOP. And who knows, maybe the inter-state competition between insurance companies could drive costs down.
4. Insurance companies can’t turn away people with pre-existing conditions.
5. If possible get rid of HMO plans that are referral based and replace them with the PPO system. If everyone’s plan is a PPO I would think it could keep prices steady, maybe slightly higher than HMO but hopefully not by much. That way anyone can go anywhere to get their healthcare instead of being limited to certain hospitals/doctors/institutions.
6. Establishment of tax deductible Health Savings Accounts capped at $300 per year ($1,006.96 in 2023 money) to help cover out-of-pocket healthcare costs.
7. Expand medical tax deductions/tax credits. Any and all medical expenses higher than 3% of Adjusted Gross Income in any given year can be tax deductible. This lowers it from 7.5% AGI to 3%, allowing more people to claim their medical expenses on their taxes to lower tax burden.
I know Carey has to be careful with the economy as the ESA is his big focus, but the government could pay for this while the economy recovers. Maybe a tax of junk food/tobacco and cigarettes to help pay for it while simultaneously trying to make the average American a smidge healthier.
@KingSweden24 I completely overhauled my post, just in case you want an Obama equivalent to do universal healthcare or public option. Maybe even have Carey do CHIP healthcare but that would be cool to see a Republican president do in the 1990s, or at the very least a variation of it with it being expanded upon to match what we have now by a Democrat president in the 2000s.
Last edited:
Even with my financial planning background I’m not really a policy whiz by any means (especially on something as opaque as health insurance lol) but this is probably close to where Carey-care/Teddy-care will land
The GOP got utterly bodied. I don’t think the Dems would wanna try and capitulate to them now that they have a good lead and handling.
Depends on what. Especially what the US will take ideas on.
I imagine people like Ted Kennedy will keep wanting to push for universal healthcare like they were over in the 1970s, so I imagine that Carey would be having a fight with his party for not being ambitious enough.
Honestly, pumping into the economy will help, especially as the recovery keeps on coming and economic grows again.
This is what I could find: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/06/22/stockman/bvg57mguQxOVpZMmB1Mg2N/story.html
History of health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia
The issue is dealing with the insurance companies, and so they need to be kneecapped somehow.
Because Kennedy would be aiming for universal healthcare still, especially with this Dems comeback.
Last edited:
Ooh, I wonder who they'll be? (Before I start speculating on Carey's successor, where Askew is a likely but not inevitable possibility).
And yeah, TTL screwed Evangelicals hard (since before Saint Ronnie, Carter was their stand-in in '76. Their double wins in '76 and '80 IOTL have been flipped into straight losses ITTL), which leads to a very different right-wing.
But a good chunk of those congressional Dems are conservative and/or Southern Dems who will force the party to water it down via the filibuster. TTL's Senate majority has people like Heflin and Folsom from Alabama, Zorinsky and Exon from Nebraska, Bill Roy from Kansas, Russell Long from Louisiana, Sam Nunn from Georgia, the two odious Mississippians, and several others who will pump the brakes without needing the GOP or insurance companies to tell them so. The Ted Kennedy/Elizabeth Holtzman types aren't exactly the whole of the party.This is what I could find: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2012/06/22/stockman/bvg57mguQxOVpZMmB1Mg2N/story.html
History of health care reform in the United States - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The issue is dealing with the insurance companies, and so they need to be kneecapped somehow.
Because Kennedy would be aiming for universal healthcare still, especially with this Dems comeback.
Heck, not to mention the other ramifications down the line. Me, I’m also for Askew.
Fair, but they’ll have to be careful as well. Some of these guys may be facing pressure to fold since defecting would lead to potential blows to their popularity and so on.
Like, I’m looking at some of these guys and oof, I could see some problems arising because of the Overton window shift.
Dealing with the AIDS epidemic would be a potential looming issue.
Last edited:
@KingSweden24 @CountDVB
I went through and completely reworked my healthcare post. While I am all for a public option or a universal healthcare system, I’m trying to go for one that most of the Democratic Party can get behind and one that has just enough appealing aspects so as to not trigger Republican calling it ‘socialized medicine or government overreach.’
Because when the GOP has the presidency in the 1990s and quite possibly one or both chambers of Congress then the Democrats need to have at least some GOP members on board with Careycare so that it can survive and become ingrained enough that for the Republicans to try and remove it years later would be political suicide. From there the Democrats can expand with CHIP and either an ACA equivalent or a public option/universal healthcare. It’s gonna be a slow and long race, can’t just jump to the finish line and expect everyone to be happy with it.
Besides the Democrats having commanding leads in Congress has never stopped them from being unable to pass major sweeping healthcare reforms. Clinton (CHIP) and Obama (ACA) did a lot to expand healthcare but I think we can all agree they were half-measures and both were created under Democratic controlled Congresses.
To save people time from scrolling up here is my edited and far more limited Careycare:
1. Raise Medicaid Eligibility to cover those making 125% of the poverty line or less. Poverty line in 1981 was $9,287 ($31,172.14 in 2023 money) so an increase to 125% would be: $11,608.75 ($38,965.17 in 2023 money).
2. Lower Medicare enrollment age from 65 to 63, with people able to “buy in” at 62.
3. Allow insurances to cross state lines. This won’t really do much but it looks good and is something Republicans harp on a lot so it can defang them of that by saying the Democratic controlled Congress is appeasing the GOP. And who knows, maybe the inter-state competition between insurance companies could drive costs down.
4. Insurance companies can’t turn away people with pre-existing conditions.
5. If possible get rid of HMO plans that are referral based and replace them with the PPO system. If everyone’s plan is a PPO I would think it could keep prices steady, maybe slightly higher than HMO but hopefully not by much. That way anyone can go anywhere to get their healthcare instead of being limited to certain hospitals/doctors/institutions.
6. Establishment of tax deductible Health Savings Accounts capped at $300 per year ($1,006.96 in 2023 money) to help cover out-of-pocket healthcare costs.
7. Expand medical tax deductions/tax credits. Any and all medical expenses higher than 3% of Adjusted Gross Income in any given year can be tax deductible. This lowers it from 7.5% AGI to 3%, allowing more people to claim their medical expenses on their taxes to lower tax burden.
I went through and completely reworked my healthcare post. While I am all for a public option or a universal healthcare system, I’m trying to go for one that most of the Democratic Party can get behind and one that has just enough appealing aspects so as to not trigger Republican calling it ‘socialized medicine or government overreach.’
Because when the GOP has the presidency in the 1990s and quite possibly one or both chambers of Congress then the Democrats need to have at least some GOP members on board with Careycare so that it can survive and become ingrained enough that for the Republicans to try and remove it years later would be political suicide. From there the Democrats can expand with CHIP and either an ACA equivalent or a public option/universal healthcare. It’s gonna be a slow and long race, can’t just jump to the finish line and expect everyone to be happy with it.
Besides the Democrats having commanding leads in Congress has never stopped them from being unable to pass major sweeping healthcare reforms. Clinton (CHIP) and Obama (ACA) did a lot to expand healthcare but I think we can all agree they were half-measures and both were created under Democratic controlled Congresses.
To save people time from scrolling up here is my edited and far more limited Careycare:
1. Raise Medicaid Eligibility to cover those making 125% of the poverty line or less. Poverty line in 1981 was $9,287 ($31,172.14 in 2023 money) so an increase to 125% would be: $11,608.75 ($38,965.17 in 2023 money).
2. Lower Medicare enrollment age from 65 to 63, with people able to “buy in” at 62.
3. Allow insurances to cross state lines. This won’t really do much but it looks good and is something Republicans harp on a lot so it can defang them of that by saying the Democratic controlled Congress is appeasing the GOP. And who knows, maybe the inter-state competition between insurance companies could drive costs down.
4. Insurance companies can’t turn away people with pre-existing conditions.
5. If possible get rid of HMO plans that are referral based and replace them with the PPO system. If everyone’s plan is a PPO I would think it could keep prices steady, maybe slightly higher than HMO but hopefully not by much. That way anyone can go anywhere to get their healthcare instead of being limited to certain hospitals/doctors/institutions.
6. Establishment of tax deductible Health Savings Accounts capped at $300 per year ($1,006.96 in 2023 money) to help cover out-of-pocket healthcare costs.
7. Expand medical tax deductions/tax credits. Any and all medical expenses higher than 3% of Adjusted Gross Income in any given year can be tax deductible. This lowers it from 7.5% AGI to 3%, allowing more people to claim their medical expenses on their taxes to lower tax burden.
Last edited:
They’re gonna do that with most things, especially given how they had to deal with a painful defeat.
The GOP of TTL are gonna be different though and I imagine if it’s too modest, no one is gonna notice it if it’s attacked then.
Yeah, but those were different circumstances and times. The GOP of TTL ain’t gonna be the same of OTL. ACA was just a half-assed version of Nixoncare and Clinton had to deal with Gingrich and the GOP having been empowered the last few years along aith other bad luck.
Claiming the circumstances are equivalent is simply untrue.
This would definitely ruffle the feathers of the more progressive members and voters here.
I don’t know again the make up of the House and Senate is, but I imagine the political trends in the Dems favor and what Carey wants to do along with the other players will determine the make up.
Last edited:
I understand that this different situation predates Clinton and Obama. They won’t even be presidents here as I recall KingSweden saying Carter is the last familiar presidential candidate we’ll see.
But the Democrats had dominant control of Congress throughout most of the 1930s up to the 1980s. Obviously there were several Republican Presidents and brief moments when either the House or Senate were GOP controlled but even during that entire time the Democratic Party never passed Universal Healthcare or a Public Option even when nations in Europe were doing so.
These proposals will step on the toes of the progressives, sure, but that was a major issue with Ted Kennedy. He pursued an all or nothing approach with Carter OTL and look what happened: nothing, no healthcare expansion or anything.
Carey here is taking baby steps to establish a strong foundation to be built upon. Expanding Medicare and Medicaid will help millions. And does Carey really want to tackle the healthcare/insurance industry head on while simultaneously trying to lift the American economy out of lingering stagflation? Sure in the long run with hindsight it will prove beneficial but in the short term it could cause a lot of economic growing pains and may cost the Democrats one or both chambers of Congress.
This is a safe healthcare proposal and one Carey can then say ‘in my next term we will do even more!’
Well, they were in talks of that in 1970s, and then Watergate, so the issue and potentially was there and seriously taken, like I put earlier. It only died because of Reagan’s lucky victory and the shift occurred from there.
That may reflect more on Carter given the reputation he had for not working too well with Congress. I like the guy, but he was not a good president.
I get that, but there would still be some fair bit of liberal Republicans there. And honestly, depends on what Carey does. Austerity measures will, like OTL, fail.
We should probably so we don’t bother @KingSweden24 too much
.