As someone who works at a business that was essentially invented by the Carter/Reagan deregulation boom, I'm kinda curious as to how stuff like the MCA of 1980 works out ITTL.
Bicentennial Man: Ford '76 and Beyond
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
Probably fairly similarly; my stance is if something deregulatory happened under Carter, it probably happened under Ford, too (the MCA doesn't seem like it was super controversial for its time)
I'm a simple man - I kill Bob Marley, then I gotta spare Elvis. Thems the rules!
Panama Crisis
"...the negotiations were deadlocked over a few critical issues - would the United States continue to have a voice in the Panama Canal Commission even if the Canal Zone itself was abolished? Would Panama pay the United States restitution for the return of the asset, a critical point that many conservatives voiced? And what of the US military presence in Panama, which served as a critical site for operations throughout Latin America? Bush noted in memos to other figures at Foggy Bottom that he wanted a "clean deal, but a deal that makes sense" - some internationalization of the Canal rather than a total handover to Panama, particularly making sure that it didn't appear to be a "retreat." Despite his reputation as a moderate, Bush was very aware of the angry voices brewing within the Republican Party about "giving away" the Canal. He understood that this was a difficult high-wire act and he had to maneuver carefully. It did not help his cause when his eldest son announced a run for Congress in Texas and the Canal negotiations that dominated the imaginations of the Right seemed likely to drive a political wedge between father and son..."
- George Bush: The Anti-Kissinger of the 1970s
"...Torrijos was increasingly impatient with negotiations as they dragged further on into 1977, threatening multiple times to pull out of talks. Unlike the Americans, he wanted a "clean handover" - the abolition of the Canal Zone, and no Panamanian payments made. As an economic nationalist and populist, the Canal issue was critical for him to rally the population around; already popular for his land reform and attacks on the elite, Torrijos was emerging as a key figure for Latin Americans hoping to stand against 'Yankee imperialism.' He could not be seen to give concessions as he tightened his control over Panama - it had to be all or nothing, especially as pressure mounted from opposition groups he was convinced were aligned with the CIA. [1] A key moment in negotiations occurred when Bush bluntly told Torrijos that without some efforts to be more conciliatory to his opposition and liberalize his regime, the Senate was unlikely to pass the Treaty. Torrijos angrily replied, "Let them reject it, and we will see what they think when they see what happens next." [2] Upon reporting back to Ford how the bilateral meeting in Colon had gone, Ford ordered a 30-day suspension in negotiations in order to confer with Congressional leadership over what the ensuing treaty would look like in order to have as much buy-in as possible. Torrijos was outraged at what he considered the Americans walking away from good-faith negotiations; Bush, of course, saw the matter as not indulging a threat from a "banana republic strongman." Within days, Torrijos ordered his military commanders to start drawing up plans for a "use of leverage"..."
- Latin America in the Cold War
"...Ford emphasized that he was not walking away from negotiations when it was leaked to the press - allegedly by Donald Rumsfeld, who wanted to scuttle the talks ahead of a planned 1980 Presidential campaign - that he had suspended talks for a month, but it was interpreted that way and the pressure campaign from prominent conservatives only grew. On his weekly radio show, Reagan became so animated by the issue he declared, "To sign a treaty with the Torrijos regime, to even talk to them, would be sign away Latin America to radicals and the Soviet bloc for eternity." The Panamanian government was equated with Castro's in Cuba to many Republicans; it became a lightning rod issue of national sovereignty and pride. Stunned by the backlash, Ford ordered Cheney to do everything he could to cool tempers and start whipping Republican senators for the treaty; it was soon expected that Ford would have to start "taking the temperature" of Democrats to do the same, and Bush and Scowcroft suggested looping Washington Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson in on the talks in order to build national security cachet..."
- The Ford Years
[1] Big difference between negotiating with ex-CIA head Bush vs. Jimmy Carter
[2] As we're going to see here soon, a foreign policy of "f--- around and find out" doesn't usually work well for anyone involved
- George Bush: The Anti-Kissinger of the 1970s
"...Torrijos was increasingly impatient with negotiations as they dragged further on into 1977, threatening multiple times to pull out of talks. Unlike the Americans, he wanted a "clean handover" - the abolition of the Canal Zone, and no Panamanian payments made. As an economic nationalist and populist, the Canal issue was critical for him to rally the population around; already popular for his land reform and attacks on the elite, Torrijos was emerging as a key figure for Latin Americans hoping to stand against 'Yankee imperialism.' He could not be seen to give concessions as he tightened his control over Panama - it had to be all or nothing, especially as pressure mounted from opposition groups he was convinced were aligned with the CIA. [1] A key moment in negotiations occurred when Bush bluntly told Torrijos that without some efforts to be more conciliatory to his opposition and liberalize his regime, the Senate was unlikely to pass the Treaty. Torrijos angrily replied, "Let them reject it, and we will see what they think when they see what happens next." [2] Upon reporting back to Ford how the bilateral meeting in Colon had gone, Ford ordered a 30-day suspension in negotiations in order to confer with Congressional leadership over what the ensuing treaty would look like in order to have as much buy-in as possible. Torrijos was outraged at what he considered the Americans walking away from good-faith negotiations; Bush, of course, saw the matter as not indulging a threat from a "banana republic strongman." Within days, Torrijos ordered his military commanders to start drawing up plans for a "use of leverage"..."
- Latin America in the Cold War
"...Ford emphasized that he was not walking away from negotiations when it was leaked to the press - allegedly by Donald Rumsfeld, who wanted to scuttle the talks ahead of a planned 1980 Presidential campaign - that he had suspended talks for a month, but it was interpreted that way and the pressure campaign from prominent conservatives only grew. On his weekly radio show, Reagan became so animated by the issue he declared, "To sign a treaty with the Torrijos regime, to even talk to them, would be sign away Latin America to radicals and the Soviet bloc for eternity." The Panamanian government was equated with Castro's in Cuba to many Republicans; it became a lightning rod issue of national sovereignty and pride. Stunned by the backlash, Ford ordered Cheney to do everything he could to cool tempers and start whipping Republican senators for the treaty; it was soon expected that Ford would have to start "taking the temperature" of Democrats to do the same, and Bush and Scowcroft suggested looping Washington Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson in on the talks in order to build national security cachet..."
- The Ford Years
[1] Big difference between negotiating with ex-CIA head Bush vs. Jimmy Carter
[2] As we're going to see here soon, a foreign policy of "f--- around and find out" doesn't usually work well for anyone involved
Ford and Congress
"...of course, it wasn't all bad. It helped that I'd been in the Senate and knew a lot of the players. We got the Cannon Airline Act passed before Christmas, I worked with George McGovern and Tom Foley while he was still in the House to pass the Food Stamp Act of 1977, there was really a lot of bipartisan stuff going on in the Ford years. It helped that Jerry was a chipper guy, a charmer, that he could work with Tip and Byrd and get stuff done, even with all the ugliness swirling around New York maybe needing another bailout, around the whole Panama thing..."
- Former Vice President Bob Dole, 2002
"...for Democrats who weren't planning on running in 1980, there was a real opportunity to find middle ground. Ted Kennedy wanted to try to get universal healthcare passed but found reaction to that to be very lukewarm from the White House; that had been a Nixon idea, but Ford wasn't a fan, Bill Simon really had his ear. Instead we got a big push on deregulating transportation, and that spelt the end of the CAB with the Cannon Airline Act, and we got to work on trucking and railroads next. There were a few who wanted to make a big show of independence though... everybody knew Mondale was going to flex his muscles before running, we all knew that Scoop had his eyes on a run as well, Mo Udall... you could tell who wanted to play ball and who wanted to make a statement ahead of the primaries."
- Former Washington Senator Tom Foley, 2009
- Former Vice President Bob Dole, 2002
"...for Democrats who weren't planning on running in 1980, there was a real opportunity to find middle ground. Ted Kennedy wanted to try to get universal healthcare passed but found reaction to that to be very lukewarm from the White House; that had been a Nixon idea, but Ford wasn't a fan, Bill Simon really had his ear. Instead we got a big push on deregulating transportation, and that spelt the end of the CAB with the Cannon Airline Act, and we got to work on trucking and railroads next. There were a few who wanted to make a big show of independence though... everybody knew Mondale was going to flex his muscles before running, we all knew that Scoop had his eyes on a run as well, Mo Udall... you could tell who wanted to play ball and who wanted to make a statement ahead of the primaries."
- Former Washington Senator Tom Foley, 2009
Absolutely - Ford just isn't interested in it (or at least not like Nixon was, and the economic conditions of 1977 are not those of pre-energy crisis 1973)
Did not know about the Bob Marley thing til now.
Honestly, the Dems should go big here. There was 12 years of Republican after this, things aren't looking good and they need someone who can bring in hope. Mo Udall has a pretty good chance of that. He's like the left's version of Reagan with elements of Lincoln. Even if his condition doesn't keep him from doing more than one term (though honesly, I could see him going a term and a half), that's what the vice president is for, especially if it's more a moderate that would feel indebited to Udall to get his biggest projects off the ground (maybe Mondale?)
I was super surprised when I turned up the Bob Marley attempted hit in my research. Figured I should use it!
I have some ideas in store for Udall down the line... I'll leave it at that
Oooh that's fascinating.
"Mo healthcare for U all" There's his slogan there
What is so great about Walter Mondale?
I believe I will be forever confused about his popularity, especially with Matt Groening.
Don't know much about Mondale outside of him being Carter's VP though I do think he was something of a centralist and so could be used to bring in moderates more toward Udall, especially regarding his radical policies.
Hopefully, the King will take this near-death experience as a sign to live a healthier life. Maybe he could finally drop the Colonel and finally get some work as a more serious actor.
Wonder if Elvis would go further into different music later on, explore other venues of acting or so on.
I could see Elvis making experimental albums and collaborations with artists from different genres. I also could see him acting in television along with whatever movies he'd be doing. Especially if he lives long enough to make it to the advent of streaming services.
Ogaden War - Fall 1977
"...that the Soviets now plainly backed the Ethiopians and were planning on financing and arming their counterattack made for strange bedfellows; we didn't want to be directly supporting the Somalis, mind you, they were still a pretty anti-Western and Socialist government, but we couldn't let them lose Harar after the advances they had made. The fighting there got ugly; massacres, trench warfare like the Western Front only with East Africans, it was bad stuff. The Somalis were exhausted but they were killing Cubans, and that was what mattered in Langley and at the Pentagon..."
- Former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft
"...the collapse of the Derg government triggered the Ethiopian Civil War, immediately pitting Mengistu's Derg against other socialist groups, Eritrean and Tigrayan rebels, and even fringe Oromo [1] separatists from the south. The start of the war, in which rival groups seized Cuban and Soviet weaponry and turned it against each other, was the beginning of one of Africa's bloodiest and most destructive conflicts. By early November, Somalia had consolidated its control over the Ogaden and the Western Somali Liberation Front was preparing to hold a "referendum," if it could even be called that, on the accession of the Ogaden to Somalia..."
- Africa in the Cold War
[1] Seeing as how intermixed Oromo and Amhara are and the dominant position the Oromo have traditionally enjoyed by virtue of their ethnic plurality, Oromo separatism really is a fringe position in my view
- Former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft
"...the collapse of the Derg government triggered the Ethiopian Civil War, immediately pitting Mengistu's Derg against other socialist groups, Eritrean and Tigrayan rebels, and even fringe Oromo [1] separatists from the south. The start of the war, in which rival groups seized Cuban and Soviet weaponry and turned it against each other, was the beginning of one of Africa's bloodiest and most destructive conflicts. By early November, Somalia had consolidated its control over the Ogaden and the Western Somali Liberation Front was preparing to hold a "referendum," if it could even be called that, on the accession of the Ogaden to Somalia..."
- Africa in the Cold War
[1] Seeing as how intermixed Oromo and Amhara are and the dominant position the Oromo have traditionally enjoyed by virtue of their ethnic plurality, Oromo separatism really is a fringe position in my view