Say Jean Baptiste Bernadotte, eventually Karl XIV Johan, either never receives the invitation to become king of Sweden (perhaps because someone else received it or Karl August survives) or declines for whatever reason, then what does he get up to in France? What role does he play in the remainder of the Napoleonic wars?
Bernadotte remains in France, what does he get up to?
- Thread starter Gugu
- Start date
In OTL just before the Swedish affair, after refusing to take command in Catalonia he accepted the general government of the Roman departments. So he would be in Italy and later most probably would be given a corps command in the Russian campaign.
It is quite probable that without him on the allied side the Prussians would be defeated, again, in August-September of 1813 with the loss of Berlin and perhaps more serious consequences.
what would you estimate the results of that are? Probably won't change the end result of who wins the overall conflict right but the final peace deal relating to Prussia would change one assumes?
After the series of OTL defeats in 1813 with a loss of Berlin (if happens) added to the picture, Russia and Prussia may seriously consider a peace acceptable to Napoleon while Austria may not enter the coalition. This is, of course, purely speculative.
Per Zamoyski, the morning after Napoléon arrived back in Paris after the Russian Invasion, the Prussian ambassador came to see him about a match between one of Napoléon's nieces and Friedrich Wilhelm IV. So clearly Berlin was on board the peace train. Russia is touch and go, but I'm sure Alexander can have one of his classic changes of mind. The bigger question is how does Bernadette being in Paris or Italy affect his relations with Fouché (then in self-imposed exile in Florence) and Talleyrand (still in Paris, out of power, but still plotting). ICR if Bernadette was close to them OTL, but IIRC Talleyrand and Joseph Bonaparte and Murat were all in a species of cahoots. Fouché had Elisa in his pocket and had still hung onto his files as minister of police. So does Bernadette in Italy strike these opportunists as a better horse to back than Napoléon? Not as emperor, but in a species of get the Sénat to oblige Nappy to abdicate and proclaim the rule of the king of Rome with Bernadette as constable/regent?
Yes, after all he swore not to make a peace “until the last enemy leaves the Russian soil”. The rest in OTL was just grabbing an opportunity which presented itself.
You mean this one?😂😂😂 (sorry, the temptation was too big).
First, IMO Nappy would use him in campaign of 1812. Second, as much as I like the idea, I doubt that it is realistic: Nappy still was, contrary to all logic, incontestably popular in France (and especially in the army) and stubborn enough to reject abdication (with Prussia not in the game situation favors him) and Bernadotte was not, IMO, high-risk taker and could see that the move is lacking a wide support base: probably it is safe to say that B was more popular outside France than in France.
my mind went to Bernadette Banner on youtube but she's sadly off topic unless someone does an alternate fashion history (which I think I'd love the more I think about it)
I agree 100%, it's arguably his key strength I'd say being careful
Bernadette of Lourdes was at least XIX century so few decades more or less are not a big deal. 😂
Indeed. Look at his “election campaign” in Sweden. It took a lot of preparation in France, Germany and Sweden (and, rather strangely, certain preparation moves in Russia well ahead of the whole affair; AI was important because his approval was at least formally needed for candidate’s approval). Getting from almost bottom of the list to a top candidate producing almost hysterical enthusiasm in Riksdag was not easy PR trick.