Australia... the Pluto of continents?

[Napoleonrules]

Is it possible to have Australia never considered as a continent? Or have it demoted when we realize how small it is? Originally people didn't know if it was connected to what would later be called Antarctica.

Even though this is the pre-1900 I think we can discuss post-1900 demotion (seems silly I should have two threads one for pre and one for post 1900 demotion).

Or is perhaps demoting Pluto (and in 1851 Ceres and 4 other "planets") easier because no one lives there...

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I mean, I don't know many people who consider it a continent.

 

[Jared]

Continents are defined by tradition and convention, not specific size. There's no agreement already in the world about how many continents there are. For instance, the Americas are considered two continents in the English-speaking world, but one continent in the Spanish-speaking world and (IIRC) the Portuguese-speaking world, too. Europe is considered a continent in some cases and part of Eurasia in others. So even if one group of people decide to classify Australia as an island, then that doesn't mean it will become a global perception.

Demoting Pluto happened because people kept discovering more potential planets of equal or greater size. That's unlikely to happen in terms of continents, since we seem to have run out of new continents to discover on Earth, barring Atlantis rising from the depths or some such weird geological event. So it's hard to think of a reason why the majority of the world would decide to demote Australia.

 

[Skallagrim]

I mean, I don't know many people who consider it a continent.

Really? Basically every single model that is generally used has Australia as a continent. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything - it's pretty much subjective, as Jared notes - but I'd be curious to know more.

 

[Napoleonrules]

Continents are defined by tradition and convention, not specific size. There's no agreement already in the world about how many continents there are. For instance, the Americas are considered two continents in the English-speaking world, but one continent in the Spanish-speaking world and (IIRC) the Portuguese-speaking world, too. Europe is considered a continent in some cases and part of Eurasia in others. So even if one group of people decide to classify Australia as an island, then that doesn't mean it will become a global perception.

Demoting Pluto happened because people kept discovering more potential planets of equal or greater size. That's unlikely to happen in terms of continents, since we seem to have run out of new continents to discover on Earth, barring Atlantis rising from the depths or some such weird geological event. So it's hard to think of a reason why the majority of the world would decide to demote Australia.

Is that real about the Spanish speaking world though? They do refer to US citizens often as Norte Americanos... Doesn't that imply a recognition of the North America continent?

 

[Generalisimo Chamuyeiro]

In argentina's school's they teach that América is one continente with 3 distinct áreas...North América: Canadá, USA & México, Central América & Caribean islands: From Guatemala to Panamá and Bermuda to Trinidad & Tobago. And Last, South America : From Colombia all the way down to Chile/Argentina.

Un Argentina we use Norteamericanos (North American's) or Estadounidenses ( it does not have a translation to English, the closest one is "from the United States" or somthing like it.

For us Australia it's not a continent, it's part of Oceanían continent along with New Zealand, and all the Small islands like Fidji Vanuatu, Tonga por Samoa.

 

[General Ripper]

Is it possible to have Australia never considered as a continent? Or have it demoted when we realize how small it is?

What other insular area ( not considered as continent ) is larger than Australia? Considering that it's 3x larger than world greatest island ( Greanland ) or 10x larger than second largest island ( N. Guinea ) I think it's only fair to consider Australia as a continent.

 

[Jürgen]

Seeing that continents are purely a artificial split of the world, you could get away with it being whatever you want.

 

[Napoleonrules]

What other insular area ( not considered as continent ) is larger than Australia? Considering that it's 3x larger than world greatest island ( Greanland ) or 10x larger than second largest island ( N. Guinea ) I think it's only fair to consider Australia as a continent.

But if continents were defined not culturally but as land completely surrounded by water, you'd have at beginning of history- one known continent in the world and therefore no concept of continent, then America is discovered, now there are two. Afro-eurasia is 10x larger than Australia, America is 5x larger than Australia. Would Australia be considered a large island or a continent in this particular scenario? If you consider originally they assumed Australia covered what we now know as Antarctica it could initially be classified as a third continent and then when it is circumnavigate it is realized it is 5x smaller than America and 3x larger than Greenland.. could see a demotion then? When Antarctica is found it is .5x larger than Australia... are both made continents then? Or Antarctica is recognized as being sufficiently secluded whereas Australia has a chain of island from Afro-Eurasia?

At all plausible in this scenario where Afro-eurasia is considered one continent (perhaps due to a philosophy in India that spreads west to the Persian Empire which actually spanned all three and adopted by Helenistic period and carried down, as well as east to SE Asia and China through to Japan)

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

The International Astronomical Union defined what a planet is and decided Pluto was not a planet. This wasn't the first such demotion by the way?

Is there an equivalent body for the International Astronomical Union for Earth geography, that could define what a continent is and get people to accept that?

In any case the only objection to not counting Australia as a continent is size, but it still much bigger than the smallest island and some continent has to be the smallest.

My National Geographic Atlas "Our World" in the 1970s included New Guinea with Asia, though they did include New Zealand with Australia instead of counting it as one of the Pacific island groups (there is a separate section on mid-Ocean islands). I see now that it is more common to include New Guinea with Australia, which is geologically more appropriate, though it does make Indonesia a third trans-continental country (fourth if you count Egypt).

 

[Booster Gold]

Australia has a better claim to continental status than Europe. I think you'd have to demote Europe first.

 

[funnyhat]

I mean, I don't know many people who consider it a continent.

Is this an Australia-New Zealand rivalry thing?

 

[Indicus]

Going for an older POD, if you get some Javanese, Malay, or even Chola ships to discover and colonize Australia, the continent would be culturally connected to Asia, and I think that would amount to Australia being considered part of Asia.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

Really? Basically every single model that is generally used has Australia as a continent. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything - it's pretty much subjective, as Jared notes - but I'd be curious to know more.

I don't really know anything that isn't anecdotal. I think people here just generally consider Australia a big island rather than a whole continent. Or maybe it's that they define continents as being more than one country?

Is this an Australia-New Zealand rivalry thing?

Not as far as I'm aware.

 

[Jared]

I don't really know anything that isn't anecdotal. I think people here just generally consider Australia a big island rather than a whole continent. Or maybe it's that they define continents as being more than one country?

I lived in Aotearoa for a good many years, and never seriously heard Australia described as an island. Jokingly people might talk about "West Island", but in meaningful conversation and in schooling, Australia was always described as a continent.

 

[Emperor-of-New-Zealand]

I lived in Aotearoa for a good many years, and never seriously heard Australia described as an island. Jokingly people might talk about "West Island", but in meaningful conversation and in schooling, Australia was always described as a continent.

Interesting. We've had opposite experiences.

 

[Faeelin]

That's unlikely to happen in terms of continents, since we seem to have run out of new continents to discover on Earth, barring Atlantis rising from the depths or some such weird geological event. So it's hard to think of a reason why the majority of the world would decide to demote Australia.

We get tired of everyone fortifying the continent in Risk. Now it's part of Asia!

 

[fortyseven]

Is it possible to have Australia never considered as a continent? Or have it demoted when we realize how small it is? Originally people didn't know if it was connected to what would later be called Antarctica.

Even though this is the pre-1900 I think we can discuss post-1900 demotion (seems silly I should have two threads one for pre and one for post 1900 demotion).

Or is perhaps demoting Pluto (and in 1851 Ceres and 4 other "planets") easier because no one lives there...

I don't consider it a continent.

 

[The Professor]

We get tired of everyone fortifying the continent in Risk. Now it's part of Asia!

That was my favourite way to win!

 

[Isaac Beach]

MATE! ONLY COUNTRY THAT'S A CONTINENT MATE! MATE MATE CONTINENTAL MATEY MATE! TAKE THAT REST OF THE WORLD MATE!!

Sorry, had to get what passes for nationalism in Australia off my chest. It's an often spurious little statement in Australia mostly told to children or in patriotic speeches that "Australia is the only country that's also a continent :^)". Which isn't true at all given you're later taught that we're a part of Oceania including New Zealand and most Pacifican islands; and occasionally New Guinea in a sort of divorcée parents arrangement with Asia.