The only hope against power struggles would be strong institutions and development of rule of law.
Are bidets or South Asian lotas/water pots at thing in Rhomania/Russia now?
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
What's the status of Zoroastrians? Do you think they could be an influential minority in the Kingdom of Mesopotamia if they all moved there or something?
If I'm not mistaken they're under the kingdom of Prussia (hard to describe, wouldn't know how to identify it off the top of my head, but the Teutons are long gone), except for northern Estonia which is under the EAN.
This is probably the First of many Russo-German wars.
I’ve had the plot bunny for an interesting one shot where the mind of Elizabeth gets SIed into herself but when she was just sent off to Constantinople to marry Andreas. To see her angst over her past mistakes and to see how much she would change would be a really interesting story to make. I wonder how she would treat D3 and react to Theodor’s ambitions
It’s an interesting idea and definitely something I would read if you write it
"You see that guy?"
"What, the new Eparch?"
"Yeah."
"What about him? He's kinda just a fancy clerk."
"That man is the scariest most metal motherfucker in the Empire."
"How?"
"Do you want to find out how seriously he takes his work? Especially how he expedites the jobs he hates doing the most?"
Russian backed Wittelsbach return seems like an absolutely delightful little subplot, especially with previous history of Triunes and Russians. Perhaps I'm still under influence of just finished NBA playoffs, but fight is always more interesting when there is some personal animosity among players.
Was Elisabeth's speech/appearance modeled after Maria Theresa's plea to Hungarian parliament?
Also, I wish Elisabeth named her son Karl Franz
Maria Theresa’s plea was the direct inspiration for that bit.
Something like that, yes, at least among the elements of society that can afford such things. Keep in mind that update about the contents of a typical Roman home at this time. “Half of Rhomania without a fork.”
For simplicity’s sake, I say they’re following a similar trajectory to OTL. I can’t think of anything ITTL that might seriously divert that trend. They wouldn’t have any reason to move to Mesopotamia; the Parsis are much better off continuing in India.
Baltic Situation: The Kingdom of Prussia territorially is comparable roughly to the three OTL Baltic states plus OTL Prussia, minus parts of OTL Lithuania around Vilnius and northern Estonia which is currently part of the Empire of All the North. The royal family is Greek, but high culture and society is a mix of Baltic German and Russian, with the Latvians, Letts, and the like underneath them. Then there’s Scandinavia and the Russian Empire.
The Lands of Germany (and neighbors), 1649
The Lands of Germany (and Neighbors), 1649:
Elizabeth has been promised Russian military aid but there is still the matter of marshalling and getting it to Germany, plus the need for more and particularly German allies. If she comes marching in alongside a wholly foreign army, it will do much to discredit her. Philip Sigismund is already using that approach to condemn her in propaganda. There is a large and clear element of hypocrisy here considering how much his position owes to Henri II, but the Holy Roman Emperor can still point to German supporters to go alongside him.
Henri II’s information network quickly (by the period’s standards) gets word to him of the Russian support, which alarms him. From his perspective, the invasion of Germany has become a tiresome and expensive quagmire. The social and environmental issues affecting Rhomania and other Mediterranean countries are also afflicting the Triple Monarchy and the war itself is exacerbating tensions between France and England. Many English are tiring of the expenses while the fruits of victory mainly seem to go to French hands. The iconoclastic behavior of ultra-Bohmanist and Puritan troops, mostly although not exclusively English, in parts of Germany have drawn condemnation from Triune officials seeking to remain on good terms with the locals. However Puritan preachers respond with counter-condemnations of those Triune officials for their so-called persecution of the true religion.
Henri wants out, but he wants out with his goals achieved. These are simple to outline. Everything up to the Rhine is to become French. That is easy; it is de facto the case already and everyone recognizes that it is just a matter of signing the right paperwork to make it official. That is unlikely to change. But Henri also wants compliant buffer and puppet states on the east bank of the Rhine to guard his new acquisitions. That is what makes it complicated, as that leads to questions of compensation to dispossessed princes (already an issue due to the loss of the left bank) and there is only so much a Holy Roman Emperor can sign away before crippling his position.
Philip Sigismund is not capable of doing that. His position is already weak and unpopular; giving Henri II officially all that he wants would completely and probably fatally undermine Philip’s position, so he won’t do it. Henri needs a Holy Roman Emperor that is strong enough that he can survive making the concession, yet simultaneously weak enough that he would do so. Philip doesn’t fall into the sweet spot. And any attempts by Henri II to strengthen Philip so that he could hit that sweet spot are counterproductive as it only draws attention to the ‘foreign puppet’ aspect, making it even less likely that Philip Sigismund could survive making an official peace on Henri’s terms.
The Lady Elizabeth with a Russian army is hardly likely to simplify things from Henri’s perspective, but there is the not inconsiderable matter of how she is to get back to Germany. The last Russian intervention in Germany on the behalf of the House of Wittelsbach a century earlier had been by sea, which is impossible now considering the Triune and Scandinavian dominance of the Baltic.
It will have to come by land, which means via Poland. The official ruler of Poland is Aleksander III, soon to turn twenty-five. Although he rules in his own right, a major power player is his former regent, Queen Mother Alexandra. She is Lithuanian and generally pro-Russian in her sympathies, disliking Henri II and distrustful of Philip Sigismund.
However, that does not mean that she advocates just letting Russian armies march through her son’s kingdom. A united Russia is a clear danger to Polish security and letting Russian armies get into the habit of filing through the area is a bad precedent. Elizabeth expends much time and effort wining and dining the Polish ambassador to Russia and corresponding with the Queen Mother in an effort to allay her concerns.
The price of passage ends up harkening back to the beginning of Aleksander’s reign, just after the death of his father King Casimir at the battle of Thessaloniki. Then Queen Regent Alexandra had been forced to sign away Galicia to the Vlachs, Demetrios III’s way of rewarding his ally. That concession, while unavoidable at the time, has been a constant source of festering resentment.
The Polish price is a formal Russian recognition of the rightful Polish claim to Galicia and the illegitimacy of the current Vlach occupation. This does not oblige the Russians to make any effort to remove the Vlachs or the Roman power behind them, but legally and diplomatically this means that the Russians support the Polish position on to whom the territory belongs. This is a first step for the Poles to reclaim the territory; Galicia had been seized by a joint Vlach and Scythian army and signed away under the possibility of a direct Russian invasion of Poland. Now that potential complication is removed.
The Russian Tsar and Grand Veche agree to pay this price. The initial pledge to support Elizabeth was made without serious consideration of the transit question, but to back out now so quickly after such a public pronouncement would be humiliating and make the Russians look weak and fickle. That is unacceptable. From the Russian perspective too, it doesn’t cost them anything. The White Palace might protest, but can’t do anything more substantial; Scythian grain is vital for feeding Constantinople.
King Stephan of Hungary and Bohemia also exacts a similar price. Although most of the transit would go through Poland, there is Bohemian Silesia that covers the last leg to Saxony, so his support is also necessary for that alone, but having him onside would be valuable for the military and economic might he can bring to the table. The loss of the Banat and Transylvania to Vlachia has similarly rankled those in the halls of power in Hungary, and so Moscow also formally recognizes the Hungarian position on where that particular border should also be placed.
The fruits of these diplomatic wrangling are slow to ripen. The attentions of Moscow, Krakow, Buda, and Prague are focused to the west, in Germany. But by seriously weakening the possibility of Russian intervention to defend Vlachia’s expanded borders, it encourages those in Hungary and Poland who look forward to a future time when it will be possible to redress these grievances.
King Stephen, since he also rules Austria, is a prince of the Holy Roman Empire, but he is a Magyar. Having him on board Elizabeth’s coalition thus doesn’t do much to discredit Philip Sigismund’s propaganda of her being a foreign stooge. She needs support from unequivocally German sources. (That she is backed by the Duke of Pomerania, Wartislaw X, is similarly unhelpful in this regard. Another Imperial prince, his name is distinctly foreign to a German speaker.)
The need for German-ness illustrates a growing sense of a specific German identity, crystallizing under the recent blows from foreigners. There are strong regional differences between Austrians and Lubeckers, Saxons and Thuringians, but a recognized commonality overlaying these. It mirrors Roman identity of the time. Local and regional identities are foremost in the minds of most individuals, but there is a recognized common heritage with certain other groups, and a much stronger sense that many other groups absolutely do not belong in this common heritage.
It must absolutely be stressed that this idea of a common German identity is not based on ethnicity or racial or biological categories. It is linguistic (speakers of some form of German) and religious (Catholic). This is due to the context of its origins, in a reaction to the assaults of firstly Greek-speaking Orthodox and now French and English-speaking Bohmanists. It is also political, in that this German identity is predicated on the ultimate suzerain being the Holy Roman Emperor and not some other lord. However, said Holy Roman Emperor is supposed to defend the German body from foreign bodies, which clearly Philip Sigismund is failing to do.
Ironically, considering that much of this budded in response to Roman raids in southern Germany in the mid-30s, these features continue the similarity with Roman identity. That is also based on linguistic (Greek-speaking), religious (Orthodox), and political allegiance (loyalty to the Basileus in Constantinople). Notably, even the most devout and fluent Roman, if they take up service to a foreign potentate, such as in Mexico or Vijayanagar, are henceforth referred to as Greeks, not Romans, in Roman sources. But if they return to Rhomania, they become Roman again without missing a beat.
This appeal to a common German-ness is manifest in the title of a work by a German scholar that is published just as Elizabeth is recruiting support in Moscow. This is An Address to the German Empire and People by Ludwig von Puttkammer. It is intended to be a call to arms to the Germans, to rise up and expel the interloping foreign heretics in their midst. As an exemplar he holds up the Sicilians of the Sicilian Vespers, who by their own arms rose up and slew their French oppressors. [1]
“If the Sicilians, who at that time numbered only one million, could have done such great and noble deeds, and who defended their liberties against all comers, no matter their strength and no matter the cost, for near four centuries, what can twenty million Germans, united in arms and determined to be free, accomplish?
“The Sicilians, in their hour, performed marvels, and the world honors them. Now it is our turn. Now is our hour. We must seize it, or we will instead be damned. For the Bulgarians and Syrians failed to act, and where are they now? That is the choice before us Germans, life or death, so choose life. Let us take up the battle cry of the Sicilians at the hour of Vespers, and use it for our own purpose.
“Death to the French! Death to the English! For the liberty of Germany!”
The short pamphlet, easily printed and distributed, strikes a chord across the German lands. They are tired of paying contributions to support Triune garrisons. They are tired of French soldiers sexually pressuring their womenfolk. They are tired of English soldiers fouling their churches.
Yet for Elizabeth’s purposes this is not enough. It would be hard to harness this German-ness at the head of a foreign army, and given her experience with the Ravens she is wary of any popular movements. Plus, at this stage, the popular discontent while widespread is vague, unfocused, and unorganized. It cannot produce armies by itself, and she needs armies.
But there is another who is willing to both support Elizabeth and utilize this German-ness for their own political ends. Leopold von Habsburg, Duke of Saxony, has ambitions of his own, to the surprise of many like Henri II who are familiar with the history of his family. He is willing to back Elizabeth, now that she has an army, support Karl Manfred’s rights to the lands of Bavaria and Wurttemberg, and challenge Philip Sigismund and Henri II. In exchange he wants the Imperial Crown for the House of Habsburg. Now Elizabeth does not have the power to give that, but Karl Manfred is coming of age and thus a possible contender should Philip Sigismund be removed. Elizabeth, recognizing the limits of her position and prioritizing the reestablishment of the dynastic Wittelsbach patrimony over everything else, including the Imperial title, agrees to Leopold’s terms.
[1] Ludwig’s account gives all credit to the Sicilians, none to the Aragonese or Romans. But in fairness to Ludwig, it should be noted that while Roman gold funded the Sicilian rebels, there was no Roman military aid in 1282. And the Aragonese fleet deliberately did not arrive until after the Sicilians had bottled up Angevin forces in Messina.
Wow. If his cunning opportunism pays off, it’ll exceed OTL count Rudolf‘s rapid ascent - given his uncle is Pope I’m guessing there will be no issues with a formal HRE crowning?
My instincts are telling me Leopold's gambit won't pay off or his family won't keep the crown for very long, but I'm a huge sucker for convoluted come-from-behind instances of OTL things stumbling into alternate history. In spite of incredible hurdles, the House of Habsburg stands poised to claim the title of emperor.
Looks like relations between some Orthodox Alliance members are floundering. Vlachia doesn't seem to be doing too well on the diplomatic front like Rhomania. Given its weaker status and domestic issues, Vlachia finds itself in the same precarious position the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was pre-partitions. Seems like the stage is set for an epic showdown soon.
I have a feeling that the seed of the next War is already planted in this war, since vlachia wouldn’t be happy that there territory is being eye up by other power, and Byzantine would probably supported the vlach if a war happen
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Monthly Donor
Hungary has just been restored after being plummered down. it will take a lot of time to recover and think to be able to actually challenge the roman empire( central-south italy, half the balkans, all of Anatolia, all the road up to Egypt. + Tunis).
Russia said they will support the claim but didn't say they would help or intervene.
currently we have Hungary,Bohemia,Austria still in flames and recovering from the mess done first by Theodore and then from the peasant war.
Poland has been strangely... peaceful they might have a big army but still, we are talking of a Magyar polish alliance against the empire that defeated twice the whole HRE.
Well if Polish and Hungary has another round with Vlachia and Rome, I'd doubt they've survive their next encounter without being diminished to the point of insignificance.
The balkans is pretty much under the sphere of Rome and any power that threatens their sphere of influence, will undoubtedly feel its wrath. Most latin armies go through the balkans to invade the heartland of the empire. So i doubt the Romans will allow that to happen again.
By this point in the story Rome already considers that the balkans, Italy, central & eastern mediterraneans, and the middle east as their core interest. Any other power meddling there is practically asking for trouble as the repeated invasions of Rhomania has morphed the "Roman Psyche".
pls don't ban me
Monthly Donor
Exactly. Even Serbia is willing to be a pseudo vassal and keep living instead of being absorbed or end up like the Bulgarians.
Some might say that the commonwealth memebrs might be unloyal but except for sicily who is facing some religious and personal problems the other are 100% loyal because the Roman empire defends or defended their interest:
- Tunis/Genoa is loyal due to the reconquest of the city and the costant protection offered in Tunis.
- Egypt is ruled by greeks whoi despite the different ruling house know that a strong Rhomania is better then a strong neighbor.( also if we exclude the Arabian pensinsula every neighbor has been neutered or allied
- Sicily as i said has some internal problems caused by the conquest of Rome and also they alsways stated that they will be under Rhomania as long as they have a common ground, which in this period is kinda falling down.
There is also the customs union that they all participate in, and ironically one of the things Sicily was most mad about Constantinople potentially doing was ADDING more of Italy to that customs union and diluting their own economic opportunities within it
BY GOD ITS THE HOUSE OF HABSBURG WITH A STEEL CHAIR
I think that a lot of these regions are basically solid for now, but will be the first to split off as internal tensions start tearing Rhomania apart.
- Tunis and Genoa are both going to be eaten by their neighbors the moment Roman protection disappears
- Native Egyptians are 100% going to go apeshit on the Greeks and Coptics once they lack Roman aid to enforce their rule, even if they don't fully seize back control,
- Arabia has damn good reason to want to distance itself from Rhomania once it has the chance. No elaboration necessary there.
- Sicily is a weird hybrid of Latin-Orthodox culture and is smack dab in the center of the Mediterranean, and Sicily has no desire to get torched every time Rome pisses off the West, I could see it trying to become a bit of an Alt-Switzerland if it becomes independent infected with a case of "Terminally Neutral Middleground Country".