An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
Aren't Oudh and Awadh both Anglicizations of the name in Urdu/Hindi? Awadh is the Anglicization favoured by the current government of the area, but we don't necessarily need to follow their guidance.
For Iskander to make any serious gains in India he'll need a decade to recover and consolidate. He'll likely need some instability in India as well. If I remember correctly the ruler of Vijayanagar is fairly elderly. It's possible there might be some succession issues. Alternatively there might be some wars between the Indian states that he could take advantage of. But with Iskander's current weakness and India's current equilibrium it would be hard to imagine any gains not being thrown back immediately.
If you want to be that particular, its name is अवध in Hindi and اودھ in Urdu, both of which are pronounced [əˈʋədʱ], which would suggest Avadh.
I don't think so, since B444 mentions petty rajas in Jharkhand and such, and much of that area in general wasn't really part of any major Indian state till the British.
Evilprodigy
Donor
That assumes the north Indian states don't get involved in their own problems in the meantime.
I'm interested in discussing the ramifications of Ibrahim escaping. Let's say that Odyseus and Iskander can not capture or kill him. He's given shelter by some Indian ruler that the two of them are unwilling to go to war with.
Obviously he would then exist as a threat to Iskander's rule, much as Iskander himself did. But unlike Iskander who was sheltered by Rhomania, a powerful state on Persia's border deeply invested in its affairs, Ibrahim would either be with some petty king, or one of the larger Indian states who have no shared border with Persia and no vested interest in its politics beyond not seeing them enter India. We've largely discussed the need to get him, but is there anyone who would take him in that would truly be in a position to and motivated to give Ibrahim the resources to restore himself? If not, there is always the threat of his children returning during some political strife down the road, but would that really be a larger threat than some powerful noble or a new invader in that situation?
Obviously he would then exist as a threat to Iskander's rule, much as Iskander himself did. But unlike Iskander who was sheltered by Rhomania, a powerful state on Persia's border deeply invested in its affairs, Ibrahim would either be with some petty king, or one of the larger Indian states who have no shared border with Persia and no vested interest in its politics beyond not seeing them enter India. We've largely discussed the need to get him, but is there anyone who would take him in that would truly be in a position to and motivated to give Ibrahim the resources to restore himself? If not, there is always the threat of his children returning during some political strife down the road, but would that really be a larger threat than some powerful noble or a new invader in that situation?
Donald Reaver
Donor
Would be not so safe for Ibrahim either. Such a state could be amendable to accepting a large bribe to turn him over.
Map of India: Alright, the key players at this point are Alemdar Mustafa Pasha, the Sikhs, Awadh, Triune Bengal, and Vijayanagar.
Alemdar-the Punjab
Sikhs-blob around Delhi and Agra and that’s it
Awadh-see @Curtain Jerker’s post for rough borders
Triune Bengal-Bangladesh and the Indian state of Bengal, more or less
Vijayanagar-see @Frame’s latest map.
Future Plans and Maneuvers for India: Don’t want to dampen speculation but I’m not going to weigh into this because I’d just be quoting from future updates, and I’d prefer to just save it for future updates.
Although an important thing to note. When Vijayanagar marches against Iskandar the Great/Ibrahim, Awadh was not a thing. Now it is very much a thing. Ruling that much of the Gangetic plain means Chandragupta has immense resources. At minimum, he is comparable to Vijayanagar, and he is allied to Triune Bengal. Chandragupta has almost twice as many subjects as Rhomania and Persia combined.
Well, since it took 4 battles I would say by definition they were not decisive.
The battles are comparable to early and mid-Eternal War battles. Both sides never topped out over 55,000. In contrast, at Nineveh both sides individually topped 6 figures.
-17th century shipwreck off Australia…
-[Activate ‘Wreck of the Batavia’ storyline]
Welcome, you poor damned fools who’ve found yourself on this cursed path. Abandon all thoughts of sanity, for it is forbidden in these lands.
Who wants to be stabbed to death?
I am planning some sort of Ottoman cultural update, looking at Iskandar the Younger’s reign and his reforms. But that’s down the road.
However those Wu are going to be telling the Roman that it was crap with nothing there so don’t bother. I think there would be some contact, just like the OTL traders from Sulawesi that traded with aborigines in northern Australia for trepang. But the money in the time period is clearly elsewhere.
At the beginning of Odysseus’s reign he was still in the east. But he got transferred to the Mediterranean sometime between then and now ITTL.
Absolutely. No people or empire if they stick around has clean hands, although some are worse than others. Having the Romans always be the righteous good guys would simply be unrealistic, and an example of the kind of propaganda that always presents the Americans and British as virtuous righteous heroes that drives me crazy.
But if I’m going to have a genocide like this, I had damn well better not whitewash it. That would be even worse.
I have a line in my notes that lists the Ottoman Empire as having 14 million people in 1635.
Large minority populations in southern Mesopotamia, smaller minority in central Mesopotamia, and bits in the Roman Levant area. The latter are one of those small minorities that are tolerated because they’re useful in keeping the Sunnis in check.
No. One thing that really annoys me about modern society, and in which I think it has actively regressed from previous eras, is that it doesn’t have a concept for close male friends that doesn’t involve a sexual component. Women can have close friendships with other women, but male intimacy has to be sexual and can only be sexual. I’m sure that the impossibility of forming close bonds with other men without being accused of being gay hasn’t emotionally crippled countless men (sarcasm).
It’s a thing that bothers me.
Thanks for the correction. The base file for An Age of Miracles has been updated so it should be Awadh from now on.
Alemdar-the Punjab
Sikhs-blob around Delhi and Agra and that’s it
Awadh-see @Curtain Jerker’s post for rough borders
Triune Bengal-Bangladesh and the Indian state of Bengal, more or less
Vijayanagar-see @Frame’s latest map.
Future Plans and Maneuvers for India: Don’t want to dampen speculation but I’m not going to weigh into this because I’d just be quoting from future updates, and I’d prefer to just save it for future updates.
Although an important thing to note. When Vijayanagar marches against Iskandar the Great/Ibrahim, Awadh was not a thing. Now it is very much a thing. Ruling that much of the Gangetic plain means Chandragupta has immense resources. At minimum, he is comparable to Vijayanagar, and he is allied to Triune Bengal. Chandragupta has almost twice as many subjects as Rhomania and Persia combined.
Well, since it took 4 battles I would say by definition they were not decisive.
The battles are comparable to early and mid-Eternal War battles. Both sides never topped out over 55,000. In contrast, at Nineveh both sides individually topped 6 figures.
-17th century shipwreck off Australia…
-[Activate ‘Wreck of the Batavia’ storyline]
Welcome, you poor damned fools who’ve found yourself on this cursed path. Abandon all thoughts of sanity, for it is forbidden in these lands.
Who wants to be stabbed to death?
I am planning some sort of Ottoman cultural update, looking at Iskandar the Younger’s reign and his reforms. But that’s down the road.
However those Wu are going to be telling the Roman that it was crap with nothing there so don’t bother. I think there would be some contact, just like the OTL traders from Sulawesi that traded with aborigines in northern Australia for trepang. But the money in the time period is clearly elsewhere.
At the beginning of Odysseus’s reign he was still in the east. But he got transferred to the Mediterranean sometime between then and now ITTL.
Absolutely. No people or empire if they stick around has clean hands, although some are worse than others. Having the Romans always be the righteous good guys would simply be unrealistic, and an example of the kind of propaganda that always presents the Americans and British as virtuous righteous heroes that drives me crazy.
But if I’m going to have a genocide like this, I had damn well better not whitewash it. That would be even worse.
I have a line in my notes that lists the Ottoman Empire as having 14 million people in 1635.
Large minority populations in southern Mesopotamia, smaller minority in central Mesopotamia, and bits in the Roman Levant area. The latter are one of those small minorities that are tolerated because they’re useful in keeping the Sunnis in check.
No. One thing that really annoys me about modern society, and in which I think it has actively regressed from previous eras, is that it doesn’t have a concept for close male friends that doesn’t involve a sexual component. Women can have close friendships with other women, but male intimacy has to be sexual and can only be sexual. I’m sure that the impossibility of forming close bonds with other men without being accused of being gay hasn’t emotionally crippled countless men (sarcasm).
It’s a thing that bothers me.
Thanks for the correction. The base file for An Age of Miracles has been updated so it should be Awadh from now on.
Ibrahim must have lost around 100,000 men after taking in casualties from all the battles, also guessing that the units who would have fought until the end rather than defecting are veteran units from Iskander Snr and Ibrahim's campaigns.
It strikes me odd that a state based in the Hooghly found the time to cover eastern Bengal under its overlordship but not Bihar, despite that Bihar is physically closer. Was there friction between Awadh and Portuguese/Triune Sutanuti over the petty rajas of this land in the past?
Just in time for the eventual Roman/Sicilian/Arles/Spanish expedition against Algiers.
What I'm more interested in is Mexico and how that whole project is working. From Texcoco the empire extends all the way to lake Titicaca in the far south. B444 had mentioned somewhere a loooooong time ago that the four most prestigious ethnic groups were Texcocans, Tlaxcalans, Tarascans and those of European descent, and I can't help but see that this isn't a lot of people even in Mexico proper, much less the Yucatan and the vast and similarly multiethnic Andean lands.
So, given also that B444 has also pointed out that intermarriage is becoming more and more common, what is the current state of affairs in the Mexican Empire? How are the Andean lands administered? Is there an Inca viceroy of the Andes, acting in the name of the Emperor, or is the whole place divided into provinces directly below the imperial government? How are Mesoamerican, Andean and European societies mixing and blending in there? Did the Mexicans copy certain aspects of the Inca Empire, like the mit'a system or the network of imperial warehouses? What is the state of Catholicism in all this?
So, given also that B444 has also pointed out that intermarriage is becoming more and more common, what is the current state of affairs in the Mexican Empire? How are the Andean lands administered? Is there an Inca viceroy of the Andes, acting in the name of the Emperor, or is the whole place divided into provinces directly below the imperial government? How are Mesoamerican, Andean and European societies mixing and blending in there? Did the Mexicans copy certain aspects of the Inca Empire, like the mit'a system or the network of imperial warehouses? What is the state of Catholicism in all this?
Are they catholics though? I thought that they were a different sect of catholicism. What was it call again the schism within the catholic church pf this ttl?
Regardless I think the faith of the people empire of mexico is syncretic. Although the official religion is one of the christian faith, the rest however should still have holdouts like what happen during the era of the 4th century in Eastern Rome.
It's a matter of going where the low-hanging fruit is. Sutanuti isn't centralized; the Viceroy is the overlord of several petty rajas who owe tribute and manpower in exchange for protection. The rulers of Bihar and further west were better able to defend their independence against the Portuguese/Triunes. There was one war between Awadh (which is very new as a major power) and the Triunes over border territories, which Awadh won. The Awadh-Sutanuti alliance dates from the end of that war, with the Triunes being the reluctant junior party.
That would definitely merit a dedicated update in its own right. Perhaps in the future. But honestly, right now I have enough plates in the air spinning. I can't add another.