I believe its going to be at least a century until the ottomans get back to where they where after the type of destruction that has been teased.
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
I know that, but isn't it also been said ottomans will make a comeback after that awhile later?
Cryostorm
Monthly Donor
I think it will be sooner, probably Odysseus's grandson's time so about sixty years or two generations, but yes it has. From what we know Rhomania is going to overextend a bit after the War of Wrath, maybe actually try for taking all of Mesopotamia, and after some restructuring and getting themselves back in gear the Ottomans are going to take back some, but not all, of the lost territory in a sign that they are a peer power again.
It also has been hinted that it will be the last real Rhoman-Ottoman/Persian war so it only took the Greeks and Persians about 2,000 years to make peace. And the French and British think they have a rivalry.
Less a comeback than a return to the eternal stalemate. Any Roman gains here are simply insurance against the inroads other nations might make during the first Industrial Revolution. I suspect any territorial losses the Ottomans take will be amply compensate by the fact that they’ll industrialize and modernize the economy faster than the Romans.
more territory vs a smaller country with more efficient governance and money-making? I know which one I’m taking.
Evilprodigy
Donor
How do the Ottomans have more efficient governance and money-making than the Rhomans?
Then the romans destroy them again, thats not a stalemate getting destroyed and being able to limp away is not stalemate. Also that is no offence a bad compensation. All the ottomans and marinids seem to do is lose the question how much do they lose, they suck at being 'great powers' and just get shafted.
erm...how is a good relationship with powerful Latin nations, early participation in a modernizing economy, and other fringe benefits bad compensation? Mesopotamia isn’t gonna be all that great to lord over in a few centuries, the Ottomans are better off securing and developing more valuable resources for their future industrialization
Because the latin power is not there friend its there enemy who smashed them, they are not equals rhomania will never accept it. Economics rhomania will secure it independently they don't need the ottomans. What land are they going to secure? They cant beat anybody.
By your own arguement micro states are the best and all states should be broken up.
Are we really doing this song and dance, again? This is what, the third time now?
Evilprodigy
Donor
The amount of conjecture on the War of Wrath is distracting and just conjecture. Neither of you are more correct than the other because we don't know squat about what it will be like. Thinking so far into the future is a pointless exercise other than in big broad strokes or when tied to historical constants like geography or natural disasters.
At the risk of going further off topic, I mean to say that THE OTTOMANS might possibly make up for any territory they lose by what I mentioned. I apologize if I wasn’t clear enough.
Any enemy of the Romans is a friend of the Latins. They’re already Triune allies, who’s to say that European advances in economic and manufacturing tech don’t find their way into Persian cities long before they normally should? And who’s to say that any advances in civic and administrative sciences made by the Latins don’t follow quite quickly?
It won’t be too long (a few decades to a century is why I mean here) after the War of Wrath concludes that we might see an Ottoman state that’s lost some land, to be sure, but it’s learned from its own mistakes, and the good stuff from both sides of Christendom. Trim, fit, and modern. The Empire of the Turks will possibly look like it‘s both earned an MBA and been doing months of cross fit by the time Iskandar and his successors finish up.
yeah that’s fair. I’ll stop here.
I should clarify my post:
I wasn’t referring to speculation about the war. I was talking about ‘parachute into the thread just to complain about the Muslims losing’.
Hence the ‘third time’ reference.
I wasn’t referring to speculation about the war. I was talking about ‘parachute into the thread just to complain about the Muslims losing’.
Hence the ‘third time’ reference.
Oh sorry.
In regards to suez, due to rhomania aligned ethopia and oman will there even be need for a lt canal? As the rhomanians have little reason to push for for it currently having good control of eastern trade networks.
Oh, yeah that. It’s best in this arena to try and de-escalate. Treat the intrusion like it’s asking serious questions and patiently expound on “hey here’s why your whinging is a crock of shit.”
I think the message has finally sunk in. He’s understood the baselines:
1) Any resurgent Roman Empire must mean less Near Eastern land in the hands of Islamic polities and believers
2) This also means the dar-Al-Islam is looking either East or South...or further West than Anatolia in terms of expanding its global ties.
3) This does not mean Islam is a pushover or bereft of powerful empires in its fold—the nature of this time in history and the way in which pre-Modern Islamic regimes tended to be structured means you’ll see wealthy Muslim states coalesce in strategically vital areas.
4) Rome is not going to steamroll the Ottomans and Marinids time and time again, we have OP fiat that we’re going to have several non-European powers reach the pinnacle of excellence in at least one or two fields of culture/science/military might/administrative acumen each. In addition to Muslim colonies in the New World AND continued Marinid presence in the Iberian peninsula.
also at the risk of getting v&, repost changing destiny and your Madoka stuff on here pls oh great bote-b0ss if you have time I’m begging you
The Suez Canal connects the Mediterranean directly to the Red Sea. Any power with their center of gravity located in the former won't hesitate to build the Suez Canal as soon as resources and technology permit, least of all because it allows for inter-ocean trade without crossing the Cape of Good Hope and cuts down on travel time to Asian ports.
In recognition of its significance in keeping their global ventures afloat, the Brits called it "the jugular vein of empire" IOTL. There's currently no reason why a resurgent Rhomania will think otherwise.
And they held South Africa. Thus making even more relevant their focus on Suez. To boot they were further away from Egypt than Rhomania and the Canal was at the far end of an inner sea with high risks of being cut off.
In regards to ottoman navy is it that they lack skill to build a navy or is it they don't care
This leads to my question with ottomans and triple monarchy working can the triple monarchy not sell them boats and build them a dedicated fleet? If the triple are struggerling to project surely selling ottomans a navy could help.
Btw this isn't me complaining about ottomans just curious about the naval situation.