An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

[ImperatorAlexander]

After the Allied army is repulsed Milan the next year, then Vienna, then Munich. The HRE is long overdue for a change in dynasty.

But in all seriousness, Roman retribution will either draw in vultures to pile into the Allies and/or help to stem the coming tide. Germany will become the war zone of Europe once again.

 

[JohnSmith]

The Forgotten Emperor: A Life of Demetrios III, Founder of the Sideros Dynasty and the Modern Roman Empire

In two calendar years he was said to have aged ten.

Don’t tell me he’s going to pull a Andreas II and drop dead as soon as this war is finished?

For Demetrios III Sideros’ actions after its publication are entirely based on breaking the cycle, once and for all.

But it does seem like he still has a great amount to do. Maybe he’s forgotten in another way, the reforms he made and governance of the Empire are completely overshadowed by the sheer amount of Latin smashing?

 

[Βοανηργές]

Most is from several years ago and embarrassingly bad. I'd like to get back into it but I'm not very good at working on multiple projects at the same time.

At the current rate we are going at, with an average of 2 updates per year ITTL, we have a predicted 800 updates remaining, each coming around an average of 8-10 days apart. Making that 21 years before we get to 2018 while it will be around 2042 when the timelines converge (not including the start of alternate future Roman Space Age TL). Admittedly very little time

J’s family was originally from Saxony and he still spoke Saxon German fluently

It's been clarified that Agent J is female. However, does the Guild maintain any virile male specimens for clients who bend the other way?

Fishing in Prague was quite expensive but if his anglers could snare the big one

Sounds like a juicy internal insurrection waiting to happen

Athena had expressed an interest and despite repeated mentions of ‘unwomanly activities’ Demetrios had arranged for another master to teach his daughter. With an Imperial princess learning, suddenly many palace officials wanted their daughters to learn as well.

Is this the start of relaxation of gender roles that will prove to be more fluid than OTL and realign feminism on a different course (re: lead to different 1st wave feminism)?

That is another reason for studying The Wars of Latin Aggression, although it was not apparent at the time of publication. For Demetrios III Sideros’ actions after its publication are entirely based on breaking the cycle, once and for all.

Won't be no Winged Hussars to save German ass this time at the siege of Vienna/Munich

 

[HanEmpire]

At the current rate we are going at, with an average of 2 updates per year ITTL, we have a predicted 800 updates remaining, each coming around an average of 8-10 days apart. Making that 21 years before we get to 2018 while it will be around 2042 when the timelines converge (not including the start of alternate future Roman Space Age TL). Admittedly very little time

We'll probably see a major timeskip ahead, once we make it past this major conflict. A major epochal shift like modernity spreading out of the Empire warrants a historical overview, not to mention how the world at large is doing.

Also I can't believe Demetrios III gets to be called the forgotten Emperor. How?

 

[catconqueror]

We'll probably see a major timeskip ahead, once we make it past this major conflict. A major epochal shift like modernity spreading out of the Empire warrants a historical overview, not to mention how the world at large is doing.

Also I can't believe Demetrios III gets to be called the forgotten Emperor. How?

Probably eclipsed by the next emperor? Because if the roman empire did fall or atleast change dynasty, everyone will remember him as "the last roman emperor". So probably a roman counterrattack will coming and it will haunt europe for the years to come.

 

[InMediasRes]

Probably eclipsed by the next emperor? Because if the roman empire did fall or atleast change dynasty, everyone will remember him as "the last roman emperor". So probably a roman counterrattack will coming and it will haunt europe for the years to come.

Maybe he is just eclipsed by Odysseus, who could be the one to bring his father's plan of breaking the cycle to fruition and reap the benefits of the groundwork Demetrios is laying. We know that Demetrios is the "Founder of the Sideros Dynasty" so I hope at least the next few Emperors will be his descendants. Also, I suspect his newly born grandson Herakleios will be the one the Herakleian Islands (OTL Philippines) are named after. Or has that piece of foreshadowing been retconned?

I also found the part about fishing in Prague interesting. Who is controlling the Bohemian Crownlands anyways? Is it in Wittelsbach possession, or held by a vassal? Either way, it looks like Demetrios is formenting serious rebellion, though that admittedly falls much more in the "Greek perfidy" than the "putting on iron" category.

 

[Wolttaire]

Probably eclipsed by the next emperor? Because if the roman empire did fall or atleast change dynasty, everyone will remember him as "the last roman emperor". So probably a roman counterrattack will coming and it will haunt europe for the years to come.

we could see a roman revolution

 

[Arrix85]

Holy cow. Breaking the cycle is quite a tall order... destroying even the whole invading army won't be enough.

 

[Curtain Jerker]

Oh boy.

This is going to end in tears for somebody.

Given how Roman generals and leaders have carried the Idiot Ball with them for a century or so I know who I'm putting my money on to win a major battle when push comes to shove.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Wait.

I just realised what Demetrios might be trying to do.

Is he... is he going to try and dismantle the Holy Roman Empire? As in, full-on, destroy the crown, tear down the palace, force the Emperor to dissolve the Empire, reclaim the Imperial Regalia (whatever is still abroad) - the Napoleonic Schebang? As much as I'd love to see a Roman Vienna, that is the only "Wearing Iron" level of response that could flip the cycle. Throw in taking ownership of some valuable Caribbean Colonies and I can't think of a more complete victory besides (I dunno) annexing France!

 

[Wolttaire]

Wait.

I just realised what Demetrios might be trying to do.

Is he... is he going to try and dismantle the Holy Roman Empire? As in, full-on, destroy the crown, tear down the palace, force the Emperor to dissolve the Empire, reclaim the Imperial Regalia (whatever is still abroad) - the Napoleonic Schebang? As much as I'd love to see a Roman Vienna, that is the only "Wearing Iron" level of response that could flip the cycle. Throw in taking ownership of some valuable Caribbean Colonies and I can't think of a more complete victory besides (I dunno) annexing France!

Know he will not stop there he will tear down Hungary, uk, Poland, Holy Roman Empire, France he will try to burn down Europe and then he will return to Roman Empire while everything behind him burns

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Know he will not stop there he will tear down Hungary, uk, Poland, Holy Roman Empire, France he will try to burn down Europe and then he will return to Roman Empire while everything behind him burns

Picture: Demetrios Smites the Latin Aggression, as performed in 2018 Constantinople

It is believed the lazer-blade is meant to signify the righteousness of the cause, and the black armour is the Iron, both Sideros' namesake, and claim.

 

[InMediasRes]

The whole "Iron" part sounds very ominous, not just for the Latins but the Greeks as well.

It reminded me of a passage from the coronation of Helena I Drakina. From post #8530 on page 427 in the old thread:

"Moderation, as Aristotle would have said, was the key. The Third Empire had relied too much on gold, and the Fourth Empire too much on iron. The Fifth Empire would be, hopefully, an Empire of Gold and Iron, combining their strengths and forgoing their weaknesses. The same as them, but at the same time also different."

Seems to me like the Empire might be loosing its balance once again. Maybe not surprisingly, given the name of the current ruling dynasty. And honestly, I don't think it's possible to end the Latin threat once and for all. No matter how devastating the war will be, a few generations later everyone will be ready to fight once again.

And what would the ultimate goal be anyway? Crush the HRE? All that would accomplish is an even more overpowered Triune Kingdom, who are already the more serious long-term foe for the Romans, and are basically untouchable no matter how much Demetrios might want to crush Latins. Sure, let the vultures circle over Germany, but I see little gain in actively helping the Triunes annex everything up to the Rhine.

Instead of satisfying some revenge fantasies and marching an army on Vienna or even Munich (which would face the same supply constraints as the current allied army), Demetrios should try to get peace as soon as possible. Let the Empire heal. Focus on keeping the Triunes out of Eastern waters. Dislodge them from India, maybe push the Portuguese and Spanish out as well, while you are at it. Helping the Mexican Komnenids destroy business in the Caribbean is also a great idea, that they are already pursuing. All those have much better immediate and long-term payoffs.

 

[Evilprodigy]

What I think is most important about this update in terms of what it symbolizes, is its development of a modern Roman nationalism. Most Nations are socially constructed as being defined against a psychological other, it is hard to Define what makes an Englishman English or a Roman a Roman or a German a German, but all of these people know that they are not each other and believe that other societies have certain characteristics that they do not have. here it seems like the Romans are taking some of the first steps into modern nationalism by demonizing a particular outsider while defining themselves based upon perceived cultural traits which are unwanted or not shared in Roman society. With the increasing amount of people serving in the military during the course of this war, we could also see the rise of the military as a unifying National force in the same way it was to Meiji restoration your a Japan in breaking down regional barriers and promoting cultural uniformity.

 

[Wolttaire]

What I think is most important about this update in terms of what it symbolizes, is its development of a modern Roman nationalism. Most Nations are socially constructed as being defined against a psychological other, it is hard to Define what makes an Englishman English or a Roman a Roman or a German a German, but all of these people know that they are not each other and believe that other societies have certain characteristics that they do not have. here it seems like the Romans are taking some of the first steps into modern nationalism by demonizing a particular outsider while defining themselves based upon perceived cultural traits which are unwanted or not shared in Roman society. With the increasing amount of people serving in the military during the course of this war, we could also see the rise of the military as a unifying National force in the same way it was to Meiji restoration your a Japan in breaking down regional barriers and promoting cultural uniformity.

This is brings up a important question what polictal culture economics movements do we see a something like them or entire different who are the great thinkers of the day you get My point

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

The whole "Iron" part sounds very ominous, not just for the Latins but the Greeks as well.

It reminded me of a passage from the coronation of Helena I Drakina. From post #8530 on page 427 in the old thread:

"Moderation, as Aristotle would have said, was the key. The Third Empire had relied too much on gold, and the Fourth Empire too much on iron. The Fifth Empire would be, hopefully, an Empire of Gold and Iron, combining their strengths and forgoing their weaknesses. The same as them, but at the same time also different."

Seems to me like the Empire might be loosing its balance once again. Maybe not surprisingly, given the name of the current ruling dynasty. And honestly, I don't think it's possible to end the Latin threat once and for all. No matter how devastating the war will be, a few generations later everyone will be ready to fight once again.

And what would the ultimate goal be anyway? Crush the HRE? All that would accomplish is an even more overpowered Triune Kingdom, who are already the more serious long-term foe for the Romans, and are basically untouchable no matter how much Demetrios might want to crush Latins. Sure, let the vultures circle over Germany, but I see little gain in actively helping the Triunes annex everything up to the Rhine.

Instead of satisfying some revenge fantasies and marching an army on Vienna or even Munich (which would face the same supply constraints as the current allied army), Demetrios should try to get peace as soon as possible. Let the Empire heal. Focus on keeping the Triunes out of Eastern waters. Dislodge them from India, maybe push the Portuguese and Spanish out as well, while you are at it. Helping the Mexican Komnenids destroy business in the Caribbean is also a great idea, that they are already pursuing. All those have much better immediate and long-term payoffs.

The problem with that, as sensible as it is, is that the only people who'll have suffered internal economic damage, are the Romans, AGAIN - the argument stands that unless the Germans start to feel the pain, they'll not be averse to any war in the future. There needs to be a genuine punitive expedition, and a cost to this war. Theodor must be destroyed for his "arrogance" if you will, and that defeat burned into German and Latin history the same way as Smyrna is a valid strategic objective not just for Long Term Vengeance, but Short Term Vengeance, and to grant prestige to the Sideros name separate from Timur.

Further, we want to prevent this even happening again. Better borders are worthwhile, and the best borders for a Roman-Latin division are the Alps to the western reaches of the Carpathians, and the easiest route through that gap (and a major Latin city) is Vienna. Taking Vienna, and resettling it (and other cities on the Danube) really restricts the land routes into the Empire and provides (for now) a HUGE defence in depth, and a string of fortresses that are easily supplied via the Danube. Fortify the Carpathians and there isn't really an easy route INTO the Empire by land.

Would the Romans ever want to go further? I doubt it. Besides punitive expeditions going any further risks major overextension. But having Vienna become Siderosopolis? That is basically this Empires Carpathian-Vistula border. It would create a frontier robust enough that the army can be better positioned on softer borders.

 

[luis3007]

But again such a defeat will only empower the Triunes, if the British could conquer half the world from such a small base (Great Britain), the Triunes will take even more of it with the resources of France and the quasi-vassalage of their scared neighbors.

 

[TheCataphract]

But again such a defeat will only empower the Triunes, if the British could conquer half the world from such a small base (Great Britain), the Triunes will take even more of it with the resources of France and the quasi-vassalage of their scared neighbors.

I can see your point, but one of the main reasons Britain was able to conquer so much outside of Europe was its ability to stay a step removed from continental affairs in Europe. The Triunes will almost certainly not have that this time around and instead of being able to focus on the colonies, they will have to focus a massive military presence in Europe.

 

[Wolttaire]

Could we have a map of Europe?

 

[Evilprodigy]

Could we have a map of Europe?