Alternate warships of nations

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by zeppelinair, Sep 6, 2014.

  1. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Well, it was a big well-designed tough ship. At 33,000 tonnes full load and 257 meters long she was just a smidgeon smaller than the Lexingtons or the Essexes, a bit narrower in beam, definitely faster and with about an equal tactical turning circle to an Essex. She had good captains. She had armor over her machinery and magazines twice as thick as any US or UK carrier until the Midways and she had (^^^) a well trained crew who practiced damage control in the British fashion. She was a combination of all three qualities. She made her own luck work, through hard work, until Cavalla ended her for good. By comparison, Zuikaku, luckier, was crewed by a less well-trained cast of characters. I call it ship's culture. Some ships get it right from the launch down the weighs and never let it go. Shokaku has that quality (Enterprise). Zuikaku, her sister, was the goat (Hornet), of the IJN. Bunch of very lucky clowns.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  2. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    RN throws out the rule book after the three Illustrious class carriers and Indomitable, Implacable and Indefatigable are ordered with two full length hangers 17.5ft high with only splinter protection vertically. Flight and Hanger Decks are armoured as otl. With war imminent as the designs are drawn up the treaty limitations are considered irrelevant. HMS Unicorn is ordered not as an Armoured Carrier/maintenance ship but to the same design as a Colossus class light carrier.
     
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  3. Kalga Yell's Shipyard

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    If only I had a triple 12in gun turret model lying around...

    ... wait a minute. I do. Hold that thought.

    edit:
    [​IMG]
    Yep, this is what happens when pretty much every part is off the shelf...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
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  4. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Why am I thinking of the SMS Szent István and what happened to her?

    [​IMG]
     
  5. edgeworthy Well-Known Member

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    I think that this is the point where someone casts "Summon Astrodragon?"
     
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  6. Kalga Yell's Shipyard

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    2 reasons:

    That the angle of the pic made the hull looked higher than it actually is, and it was a scaled down version of another ship. Although it was only a difference of 13m in length and 1m in beam.
     
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  7. McPherson McPherson; a guy who needs a shave.

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    Am I being obtuse?
     
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  8. Count of Crisco Pithy remark here.

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    Mars 1927
    Alyskan fleet carrier

    Displacement

    16,530 tons standard
    Speed
    32 Knots
    Range
    8,000 nautical miles
    Propulsion
    9 small tube boilers, four geared turbines driving quadruple screws
    Dimensions
    171 metres long, 25 metres wide, 8 meters draught
    ArmourxArmament
    4 inch belt, 3 inch splinter deck beneath hangar. 6x2 10.5 cm guns, 4x1 7.5 cm AA guns. Armament altered significantly during wartime.
    Aircraft embarked
    Single hangar, designed compliment 50 aircraft. By 1940 36 aircraft split into three squadrons of twelve planes each with DB, TB and Fighter squadrons capable of being carried.

    History

    Although the 1923 Washington Naval Treaty had provided Alyska the ability to rebuild two of their then building battleships into aircraft carriers, in a manner similar to the Lexington class in the USA and the Akagi and Amagi in Japan, the Alyskan navy decided to scrap these ships. Doing so as another part of their drive to receive permission to build the two Admiraal class battleships instead which complied with the treaties 35,000 ton displacement cap. At the time the Alyskan navy relied on airships to carry out the role envisaged for carriers, airborne reconnaissance. Making a carrier of dubious value to the navy anyway.

    A year after the signing of the treaty however the navy laid down a small seventeen thousand ton carrier to test out the basic premise of such a ship and compare its abilities to those of the airships currently in service. The future Mars would be laid down on the third of June 1924 and the ship would complete in August of 1927. Fully working up and commissioning into the navy on the first of the year 1928. The ship then undertook an exhaustive series of tests to determine her effectiveness, as well as how to get the most out of the ship. These tests included round the clock flight operations of her airgroup in all weather conditions, tests to determine the best methods of refueling and rearming future carriers. Concluded in the middle of 1929 and with a full report delivered early in 1930 it showed clearly that airships had been outclasses by seaborne carriers in the reconnaissance and strike roles.

    The lessons learned through testing the Mars would take some time to be fully digested, and it would not be until 1933 that new carriers were laid down, the Romulus and Remus. Much larger these ships carried more aircraft than the now outdated Mars, as well as having the capacity to embark more modern types. As these ships entered operational service with the fleet Mars was relegated to the position of a training ship for new pilots and aircrews. Performing this mission, and the role of aircraft ferry throughout 1936-38. With the onset of the third Patagonian war in the middle of 1938 however the ship was fully commissioned once more and deployed to provide aircover for the naval element dispatched to south American waters in that year.

    The ship primarily served to provide aircover for the fleet during her stay in the south Atlantic, the lack of any carriers in either the Argentine or Brazilian navies meant that the ships limited airgroup and inability to carry the new heavier bombers was not as much of an issue than if she was deployed with the other carriers of the first Naval Air group. When war with Japan broke out in 1941 some thought was given to deploying the ship alongside the Alyskan commitment to help the Netherlands in defence of the Dutch East Indies, though the renewal of Argentine air strikes against the battlefleet however this idea was dropped.

    Mars participated in the big drive northwards undertaken by the fleet in May of 1942 to lure out the Argentine and Brazilian battleships into a fleet engagement. The ship avoided the main battle and her planes managed to locate the straggling Brazilian 2nd light cruiser division and help in its near total destruction. Unfortunately the ship would then be torpedoed by the Argentine Submarine Aguja on the 23rd, taking 420 tons of water. Damage control efforts saved the ship initially. However the ship then struck a mine two days later and the ship would take on another 3,500 tons of water. A storm during the day thwarted efforts to patch the hole and on the 24th the order was given to abandon ship and Mars was torpedoed by the Luiaard, F262 and sunk in twenty minutes when her avgas caught on fire.
     
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  9. Braden Anderson Well-Known Member

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    HMS BoatyMcBoatface
    Displacement: 65,000 tonnes (64,000 long tons; 72,000 short tons)
    Length: 280 m (920 ft)
    Beam:
    39 m (128 ft) (waterline)
    73 m (240 ft) overall
    Draught: 11 m (36 ft)
    Propulsion: Integrated Electric Propulsion via Two Rolls-Royce Marine 36 MW MT30 gas turbine alternators and four 10 MW diesel engines
    Speed: 25 knots (46 km/h)
    Range: 10,000 nautical miles (19,000 km)
    Capacity: 1,600
    Troops: 250
    Complement: 679
    Sensors and
    processing systems:
    S1850M long range radar
    Type 997 Artisan 3D medium range radar
    Ultra Electronics Series 2500 Electro Optical System (EOS)
    Armament:
    3 x Phalanx CIWS
    4 x 30mm calibre gun, various Miniguns and GPMGs to counter asymmetric threats.
    Aircraft carried:
    Planned Carrier Air Wing of 24 to 36 STOVL fighter jets & 14 helicopters
    F-35B Lightning II
    Chinook
    Apache AH MK1
    Merlin HM2 and HC4
    Wildcat AH1 and HMA2
    Merlin Crowsnest AEW
    Aviation facilities:
    Hangar below deck
    Two aircraft lifts
    Ski jump
     
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  10. Not James Stockdale Those Protestants... Up to no good, as usual

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    The reason the QE's don't have cats is because they're too slow
     
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  11. Some Bloke Well-Known Member

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    Is there a link to the main TL?
     
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  12. AJE Well-Known Member

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    A 5-6" DP mount would probably take by early WWII at best to develop (post-WWII OTL), or whenever that level of technology is available in a certain TL. A power-rammed 6" gun that can briefly fire at 15 rpm was possible since 1904 OTL, possibly earlier in TLs, so that is easy. But the problem is getting the hoists to actually feed shells and casings to the gun that fast, and the real killer is building such a heavy mount that can still traverse and elevate fast enough to track aircraft.

    This last issue killed the Richelieu's 15 cm guns' AA ability more than anything, as it did with German 15 cm destroyer guns in the AA role. A truly successful AA gun bigger than 5" was only achieved with the 6" guns on the Worcester (US) and Tiger (UK) class cruisers from 1948 onwards. Those also happened to be the only 6" AA guns to enter service because they came so late, and were made possible because they finally got turrets to rotate and guns to elevate fast enough.
     
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  13. HMS Warspite Well-Known Member

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    The first attempt to instal a DP mounting of around 5.5 inch, (actually 138.6mm, or 5.46 inch) was on the follow up batch of the French Mogador Class, or Klébèr Class, where the mounting was at first considered to be capable of limmited AA use as well. The actual mount could elevate up to 35 degrees only so only long range barrage fire was possible and certainly not useful against divebomber attacks.

    From Navweaps:
    • Single Open Mounts
      • Le Fantasque (5) 1b 2b: Model 1929
    • Two-gun Enclosed Mounts 3b
      • Volta (3): Model 1935
      • Kléber (4): Model 1938 (?)
    • ^The planned ships of the Kléber class would have had a maximum elevation of +35 degrees, but these ships were canceled upon France's defeat in 1940.
    • ^Some sources quote a maximum elevation of +35 degrees for the Model 1935, but the recent "French Destroyers: Torpilleurs d'Escadre & Contre-Torpilleurs 1922 - 1956" quotes a maximum elevation of 30 degrees.
     
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  14. Count of Crisco Pithy remark here.

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    Sort off. I was working on a timeline awhile ago and other projects got in the way. I have been writing these to kind of jumpstart my interest in the time line.
     
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  15. Some Bloke Well-Known Member

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    I've read through the latest version and it's definitely got my interest.
     
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  16. Some Bloke Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of the carrier, does one of the changes to her armament include all DP guns rather than a mix of 75 mm and 4.1" calibre?
     
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  17. Some Bloke Well-Known Member

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    How fast was she? I'd imagine 3 triple turrets wuld be lighter than 5 duals and wing turrets.
     
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  18. Count of Crisco Pithy remark here.

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    Where did you fond this design? Goes way back.
     
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  19. Some Bloke Well-Known Member

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    Searched you posts on this thread.
     
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  20. Count of Crisco Pithy remark here.

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    Ahh. Well I can't remember any particulars about the ship. The class has since been replaced. As an early dreadnought I would say the ship was between 18-21 knots.
     
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