Alternate "Renaissances"

[The_Persian_Cat]

Hello all,
So, the Italian Renaissance was (more or less) a renewed interest in Italy's Classical Roman heritage, mostly in aesthetic and scholarly fields. This interest in pre-Christian culture and philosophy led to new developments which went hand-in-hand with the preeminence of the Catholic Church -- from the Sistine Chapel to a renewed interest in Classical Latin (rather than just Church Latin) to the Jesuit emphasis on education.

What would alternative "Renaissances" look like -- reinterpretations of ancient civilisations in a mediaeval/early modern context?

What would it look like if, say, mediaeval Egyptian Muslims had a similar fascination with ancient Egypt?

Or if the Maghreb (and al-Andalus?) had a fascination with Carthage, possibly as a foil to Catholic Rome and the Reconquista?

During the Hundred Years' War, the Plantagenets came to distance themselves from their Norman roots, invoking Anglo-Saxon ideals and the English language to rally their subjects -- what if they invoked Brythonic, Celtic culture instead or as well? There was already a chivalric tradition around King Arthur, and Welsh longbowmen were very important in that war.

What would an aesthetic-intellectual movement in the 1500s look like, if it waa inspired by the ancient Israelites? Or the Phoenicians? Or the Tyranny of Syracuse? I don't know if one is even possible for Sumer, Assyrian, Hattusa, Lydia, or Babylon-- those cultures' languages, aesthetics, and philosophies might be too obscure in the Middle Ages to be the object of a whole movement.

Some "ancient" cultures continued to be studied and revered. The Byzantines, for example, were acutely aware of their Greek as well as Roman heritages, and studied philosophers like Aristotle and Marcus Aurelius (who were also studied well beyond their borders, but still). Likewise, the Persians also prided themselves on their pre-Islamic heritage, and after a period of marginalisation under the Umayyads, experienced a "Renaissance" of sorts under the Abbasids and during the Iranian Intermezzo, leading to such things as the Bayt al-Hikma of Baghdad or the composition of the Shahnameh. And in China, the ideology of the dynastic cycle and the "Mandate of Heaven" meant that ruling dynasties always legitimised themselves through past dynasties -- that they would uphold the standards that preserved the Mandate in the past, and avoid what caused previous dynasties to lose the Mandate.

So, what do you all think? Cheers, all!

 

[Lothal]

I feel that there was a missed opportunity for a renewal of Greek/Hellenic culture during and after the Nicaean Empire. The Nicaeans seemed to lean more towards to shedding the Roman identity that defined the ERE, as part of a political ideology comparing the subjugation of the ERE by the Francocracies to the Greek wars with the Persians and the Hebrews wars against their neighbors, or the cultured Greeks surrounded by the uncouth Franks and Latins. The empire shifted to being the Empire of the Greeks in some writings. Famously, philosopher Gemistos Plethon literally said that the Romans should return to Hellenic religion. The neo-Hellenic ideology was discarded after the reconquest of Constantinople, as it was no longer was politically necessary. However, what if they kept the ideology and began the restoration of the classical styles of arts?

Another missed opportunity was the finishing of the Bengali Renaissance with the independence of a unified Bengal at the end of the British Raj, but the Brits stupid decision to split India by religion led to the division of Bengal and the eventual destruction of the Bengali intellectual class by Pakistan. Of all the regions of India, Bengal and Punjab were probably the two regions that would have benefited most from having a unified state, as they had both developed a unified cultural identity, but unfortunately the British had alternate plans that were disaster for both.

 

[ramones1986]

I thought of a series of alternate "Renaissances": A stronger Redurximento, Occitan, Astur-Leonese and a more cohesive Gaelic Renaissance.

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

A literary renaissance kinda happened in 17th century India, with classical Sanskrit styles being much more widely taught and used in Braj poetry- it would have been interesting to see a sculptural renaissance as well which studied ancient sculptures and tried to reproduce them, but this is difficult without a printing press (a key factor of the European renaissance) or a generally accepted historical timeline of the first millennium, which wasn't really present in Indian intellectual circles.

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

I thought of a series of alternate "Renaissances": A stronger Redurximento, Occitan, Astur-Leonese and a more cohesive Gaelic Renaissance.

Occitan culture, especially poetry, is extremely underrated. It's so sad that Renaissance writers like Petrarch and Dante looked down on mediaeval styles like the chansons de geste, and made them unfashionable.

 

[DJ03]

Occitan culture, especially poetry, is extremely underrated. It's so sad that Renaissance writers like Petrarch and Dante looked down on mediaeval styles like the chansons de geste, and made them unfashionable.

As far as I'm aware, the chansons de geste were mainly produced in langue d'oïl, weren't they? Pls, correct me if you know some in occitan: I love them!
Dante had nothing to do w/ the renaissance. Some of the works attributed to him (Il Fiore n Detto d'Amore) show french influences

 

[JanWellem]

What if the Ilkhanate instead of converting to Islam had kicked off an Achaemenid renaissance to legitimise their rule over greater Persia. They after all ruled over pretty much the same territory as the Achaemenid Empire.

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

What if the Ilkhanate instead of converting to Islam had kicked off an Achaemenid renaissance to legitimise their rule over greater Persia. They after all ruled over pretty much the same territory as the Achaemenid Empire.

They did legitimise themselves through a lot of Achaemenid aesthetics. For example, rock-cut tombs and (iirc) the title of "Shahanshah" (though other Iranian rulers had used that title for a while). But Persia was well and truly Muslim by this point; Zoroastrianism is sort of out of the question. And not really the point of this scenario.

 

[PolishMagnet]

I feel that there was a missed opportunity for a renewal of Greek/Hellenic culture during and after the Nicaean Empire. The Nicaeans seemed to lean more towards to shedding the Roman identity that defined the ERE, as part of a political ideology comparing the subjugation of the ERE by the Francocracies to the Greek wars with the Persians and the Hebrews wars against their neighbors, or the cultured Greeks surrounded by the uncouth Franks and Latins. The empire shifted to being the Empire of the Greeks in some writings. Famously, philosopher Gemistos Plethon literally said that the Romans should return to Hellenic religion. The neo-Hellenic ideology was discarded after the reconquest of Constantinople, as it was no longer was politically necessary. However, what if they kept the ideology and began the restoration of the classical styles of arts?

Another missed opportunity was the finishing of the Bengali Renaissance with the independence of a unified Bengal at the end of the British Raj, but the Brits stupid decision to split India by religion led to the division of Bengal and the eventual destruction of the Bengali intellectual class by Pakistan. Of all the regions of India, Bengal and Punjab were probably the two regions that would have benefited most from having a unified state, as they had both developed a unified cultural identity, but unfortunately the British had alternate plans that were disaster for both.

I stan united Bengal

I think independent Punjab would be harder, given its landlocked position. It'd be at the mercy of India and Pakistan (assuming the Brits keep the religious split for the rest)

 

[Nuraghe]

As far as I'm aware, the chansons de geste were mainly produced in langue d'oïl, weren't they? Pls, correct me if you know some in occitan: I love them!
Dante had nothing to do w/ the renaissance. Some of the works attributed to him (Il Fiore n Detto d'Amore) show french influences

technically Dante was a great admirer of the Sicilian and Occitan/ Provencal schools as a stilnovite eminent figure

 

[The_Persian_Cat]

They did legitimise themselves through a lot of Achaemenid aesthetics. For example, rock-cut tombs and (iirc) the title of "Shahanshah" (though other Iranian rulers had used that title for a while). But Persia was well and truly Muslim by this point; Zoroastrianism is sort of out of the question. And not really the point of this scenario.

I wonder if the Ilkhanate might have instead tried a "renaissance" of Persia's other conquerors. Like Alexander and the Seleucids, for example -- they may have conquered Persia, but they still made something great (or so the propaganda might go, anyway).

Or the Parthians -- they were foreign nomadic conquerors, but they still revived Persian culture after Hellenic persecution (with the Turks and Khwarezmians being the Seleucids in this analogy).

Or the early Muslims -- bringers of the True Faith and abolishers of Sassanian tyrannies like dehqan-based feudalism, allowing Persians of all classes to work and travel as they pleased just like the Mongols did; and the Abbasids were perfidious usurpers, and their crimes against the Umayyad Caliphs was avenged with the Sack of Baghdad. (Of course, they'd downplay the Umayyad marginalisation of Persians -- or maybe they wouldn't, if they wanted to keep in with the Mongol custom of appointing foreigners and minorities to high positions (e.g., appointing Muslim officials in China, and Chinese officials in Persia). Either way, the Umayyads were unpopular in Persia and the Mongols were unpopular throughout the Muslim world, so this would be a hard sell).

As it stands, the Ilkhanate (especially after Ghazan Khan converted to Islam) participated in a Turco-Persian tradition which preceded them (beginning around the Ghaznavid/Seljuk era), and would outlast them (into the Timurid, Mughal, Ottoman, etc periods).