Alternate Matches for the Romanovs (Emperors, Empresses, Grand Dukes and Duchesses)

[JonasResende]

IDK if this is a viable idea, but here goes:

This isn't exactly alternate history, since I'd prefer to keep it on the more realistic end of the spectrum (so no matches between Alexander II and Queen Victoria, or something like that, please), but for instance, girls who could have ended up as Empress-Consort of all the Russias, but didn't.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the proposed brides for Nikolai II - Alix of Hesse wasn't really a candidate, however, Hélène d'Orléans and Margarethe of Prussia were. Or his brother, Mikhail (II): rumored at various times to be getting engaged to Beatrice of Coburg (which he actually wanted to) or Patricia of Connaught, and finally marrying Natalia Wulfert

Bowing to others' superior knowledge of European marriage markets and the wheelings and dealings surrounding marriages, I simply offer the following format:

Name of Czar:
Name of possible consort:
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL:
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: (note, this doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage itself is successful, simply that the tsarevich and the princess get married).

Looking forward to your responses

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Peter III Feodorovich
Name of possible consort: MariaAnna Sophia of Saxony
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Empress Elizabeth wanted a less important princess for czarina in case fertility issues cropped up, so that she could send her home with little fuss.
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: (note, this doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage itself is successful, simply that the tsarevich and the princess get married).: Would cement the Bourbon-Russian alliance (since her sisters would be married to the king of Naples/Spain and the dauphin of France)

P.S.: bumping this idea to the front page. Thought I'd provide another example.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Mikhail I Feodorovich
Name of possible consort: Dorothea Augusta of Holstein-Gottorp (b.1602)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Her uncle, the king of Denmark, wasn't fond of the idea due to the fact that Prince Johan had gone to Russia with the aim of marrying Xenia Borisovna Godunova, and purportedly been poisoned.
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: (note, this doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage itself is successful, simply that the tsarevich and the princess get married). It would be Russia's first foreign czarina since Sophia Palaeologina. Also, it would possibly mean an earlier opening of Russia to Europe than what happened OTL.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Mikhail I Feodorovich
Name of possible consort: Maria Ivanovna Khlopova (renamed Anastasia in preparation for the marriage)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Saltykov plot with the complicity of the Empress-Mother, Xenia/Marfa
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: A butterflying away of all future Romanov descendants, plus a breaking of Marfa's hold on her son, since she reportedly told him that if Maria/Anastasia became czarina, she would not stay in Russia.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

This sounds like ASB but good.
Name of Czar: Peter II Alekséievich
Name of possible consort: Maria Theresa of Habsburg
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Interest of his father Charles in securing his throne and death of Peter II.
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Security in the succession of the Russian throne, the largest alliance in Russia and the Holy Roman Empire.


PD: It would be interesting, no?

 

[JonasResende]

This sounds like ASB but good.
Name of Czar: Peter II Alekséievich
Name of possible consort: Maria Theresa of Habsburg
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Interest of his father Charles in securing his throne and death of Peter II.
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Security in the succession of the Russian throne, the largest alliance in Russia and the Holy Roman Empire.


PD: It would be interesting, no?

Very

 

[JonasResende]

This sounds like ASB but good.

Not really ASB, more like discussing ideas that aren't really covered on the (English-speaking) board.

Name of Czar: Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich
Name of possible consort: Princess Luisa Maria of Naples
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: No idea, presumably Catholic-Orthodox problems
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Would've tied the Romanovs into the network of Habsburg-Bourbon alliance against Prussia-England. Would make for interesting speculation if Alexander I still dies without children/or Konstantin gets the Greek throne.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Not really ASB, more like discussing ideas that aren't really covered on the (English-speaking) board.

Ok

 

[Kaze]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II
Name of possible consort: Mathilda-Marie Feliksovna Kschessinskaya
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Nicholas's father liked her personally. Nicholas wanted someone his father detested - he married Alexandra.
Results. Mathilda would not have hemophilia. She was a rational woman - there is a story where she backed down a drunk Cossack still dressed in her toe-shoes. She would have guided Nicholas into a constitutional monarchy and would have been far better loved than the OTL by the Russian people.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

" there is a story where she backed down a drunk Cossack still dressed in her toe-shoes."

Wouldn't there have been a scandal about how he got into her toe-shoes?

 

[Kaze]

She was dressed in the toe shoes after a performance at the ballet - not the Cossack.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II
Name of possible consort: Mathilda-Marie Feliksovna Kschessinskaya
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Nicholas's father liked her personally. Nicholas wanted someone his father detested - he married Alexandra.
Results. Mathilda would not have hemophilia. She was a rational woman - there is a story where she backed down a drunk Cossack still dressed in her toe-shoes. She would have guided Nicholas into a constitutional monarchy and would have been far better loved than the OTL by the Russian people.

This sounds like a really cool idea, but I'm just wondering if such a marriage have been morganatic? I would imagine after Alexander II and the whole business with Princess Dolgurokova, Alexander III wasn't in favour of morganatic marriages (esp since Alexander III himself had been in love with one of mother's ladies-in-waiting, but had been unable to marry her due to his brother dying and the whole Pauline law thing).

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Name of Czar: Peter III Feodorovich
Name of possible consort: MariaAnna Sophia of Saxony
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Empress Elizabeth wanted a less important princess for czarina in case fertility issues cropped up, so that she could send her home with little fuss.
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: (note, this doesn't necessarily mean that the marriage itself is successful, simply that the tsarevich and the princess get married).: Would cement the Bourbon-Russian alliance (since her sisters would be married to the king of Naples/Spain and the dauphin of France)

P.S.: bumping this idea to the front page. Thought I'd provide another example.

It would be great TL! Likely House of Wettin keeps Polish throne as result.

 

[Kaze]

This sounds like a really cool idea, but I'm just wondering if such a marriage have been morganatic? I would imagine after Alexander II and the whole business with Princess Dolgurokova, Alexander III wasn't in favour of morganatic marriages (esp since Alexander III himself had been in love with one of mother's ladies-in-waiting, but had been unable to marry her due to his brother dying and the whole Pauline law thing).

Considering that she married Nicholas' cousin with Alexander III's permission, their children if any would be in line for succession - it is likely that the marriage would not be morganatic.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Considering that she married Nicholas' cousin with Alexander III's permission, their children if any would be in line for succession - it is likely that the marriage would not be morganatic.

I'm not sure about that. She might've married Grand Duke Andrei with Alexander III's permission, but that doesn't mean the marriage wasn't morganatic. The Romanov house laws are pretty clear that any marriage to someone from a non-royal or non-ruling family is dynastically unequal and the children thereof have no succession rights. So I'm guessing that we'd be as likely to see a Czarina Mathilda (not to mention she was Catholic, only converting to Russian Orthodoxy much later) as we would an Empress Sophie von Chotek.

 

[Kaze]

Her son by the Grand Duke was Prince Vladimir Romanovsky-Krasinsky. The title means Vladimir was legitimate within Romanov house law.

 

[JonasResende]

Her son by the Grand Duke was Prince Vladimir Romanovsky-Krasinsky. The title means Vladimir was legitimate within Romanov house law.

Legitimate and morganatic are not the same thing. If Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich had a son with his second wife, the kid would be legitimate, but ineligible to succeed to the Russian throne, because the marriage was unequal.

Then, thanks to @Kellan for pointing out that she was still Catholic at the time. No way the Russians are going to accept a tsarina who's Catholic (since the Romanovs came to power, the only tsarina who wasn't Orthodox was Charlotte of Brunswick (and she wasn't tsarina); and the Russians have a fairly bad taste in their mouth about a Catholic tsarina after the last one they had - Marina Mniszech). AFAIK, there were some grand duchesses at the Imperial court who didn't convert on their marriages (only later - Marie Vladmirovna being one of them, she only converted to Orthodoxy later, when her kids' chances of inheriting the throne were better IIRC), but it was necessary for a bride marrying the empress to convert. That was the main reason that Nicky didn't marry Hélène d'Orléans (besides the fact that both were apathetic to the other) - her dad (the Comte de Paris) wouldn't allow her to convert.

And then there's the fact that Mathilde is of Polish. The Russians don't like the Poles and the Poles don't like the Russians. The Russians last Catholic tsarina was Polish. Do you see where this is going?

So, getting an Empress Kschessinska would need:
1) Permission from the head of house - but that would simply make the marriage valid, not equal (at least that's my understanding of it).
2) A changing of the house laws (not sure if they cover Nicky once he's emperor, but I'm pretty sure that they were updated to avoid a repeat of the Princess Dolgorukova incident) to recognize the marriage as equal and dynastic.
3) Conversion from Mathilde from Catholicism to Orthodoxy

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II Aleksandrovich
Name of possible consort: Elena of Montenegro
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: No idea, probably the talks started late
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Without hemophilia, more life for the Romanovs. Russia could focus and align more with the Balkans.

And how about this option. With this hemophilia is avoided and that his children can not inherit the throne for something morganatic. Aside both are orthodox.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II Aleksandrovich
Name of possible consort: Elena of Montenegro
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: No idea, probably the talks started late
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Without hemophilia, more life for the Romanovs. Russia could focus and align more with the Balkans.

And how about this option. With this hemophilia is avoided and that his children can not inherit the throne for something morganatic. Aside both are orthodox.

Sounds like a good idea. Would certainly be interesting to see how the czarina interacts with other members of the court. Weren't there already two Montenegrin princesses at court (the duchess of Leuchtenberg and someone else) or was it one person married to two people? I know the duchess of Leuchtenberg was a divorcée or she divorced Leuchtenberg. Love the idea of a scandal close to the Imperial family.

 

[mcdnab]

1) She did not marry Andrei until they were both in exile 2) Grand Duke's under the family law were not allowed to marry without consent or unequally 3) Her religion - she would have been required to convert in order to marry the heir - it was not required in other circumstances 3) Titles - the granting of a style such as Romanov Krasinsky to Mathilde and her illegitimate son were used to denote the morganatic nature of their parents marriage - Grand Duke Kyril gave tons of them out in the 20s and 30s in part to emphasise the morganatic nature of many of his relatives marriages - it did not acknowledge dynastic rights or even legitimacy (in the case of Mathilda's son he was most definitely illegitimate) 4) Permission to marry unequally - as given to Princess Irina when she married to Prince Yusupov - usually meant the Emperor recognized the marriage as legal but that it was not dynastic and the royal party would not pass their rights to any issue of the said marriage in the case of Irina and Tatiana Constantovna both also renounced their rights ahead of their unequal marriage (Alexander III and Nicholas II never gave consent to a male member of the house to marry unequally as far as i can recall)

If Nicholas had married her then the marriage would have been regarded as illegal under house law - and his father would have demanded he put her aside or lose all his rights and privileges (Alexander III was pretty unforgiving on the issue of his relatives dubious marriages). Once Nicholas became Emperor then he might legally have been able to marry her as the Emperor was technically the only arbiter or the rules - however his family would have never forgiven him.

After 1905 those family rules became part of the Fundamental laws of the Russian Empire making it slightly harder to subvert them.

Legitimate and morganatic are not the same thing. If Grand Duke Konstantin Pavlovich had a son with his second wife, the kid would be legitimate, but ineligible to succeed to the Russian throne, because the marriage was unequal.

Then, thanks to @Kellan for pointing out that she was still Catholic at the time. No way the Russians are going to accept a tsarina who's Catholic (since the Romanovs came to power, the only tsarina who wasn't Orthodox was Charlotte of Brunswick (and she wasn't tsarina); and the Russians have a fairly bad taste in their mouth about a Catholic tsarina after the last one they had - Marina Mniszech). AFAIK, there were some grand duchesses at the Imperial court who didn't convert on their marriages (only later - Marie Vladmirovna being one of them, she only converted to Orthodoxy later, when her kids' chances of inheriting the throne were better IIRC), but it was necessary for a bride marrying the empress to convert. That was the main reason that Nicky didn't marry Hélène d'Orléans (besides the fact that both were apathetic to the other) - her dad (the Comte de Paris) wouldn't allow her to convert.

And then there's the fact that Mathilde is of Polish. The Russians don't like the Poles and the Poles don't like the Russians. The Russians last Catholic tsarina was Polish. Do you see where this is going?

So, getting an Empress Kschessinska would need:
1) Permission from the head of house - but that would simply make the marriage valid, not equal (at least that's my understanding of it).
2) A changing of the house laws (not sure if they cover Nicky once he's emperor, but I'm pretty sure that they were updated to avoid a repeat of the Princess Dolgorukova incident) to recognize the marriage as equal and dynastic.
3) Conversion from Mathilde from Catholicism to Orthodoxy