Alternate Matches for the Romanovs (Emperors, Empresses, Grand Dukes and Duchesses)

[mcdnab]

Name of Czar: Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovitch (succeeded his brother Nicholas II on the latter's abdication)
Name of possible consort: Princess Beatrice Leopoldine Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (chose to use the name Marie Alexandrovna in honour of her mother)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Marriage forbidden by Nicholas II on the grounds they were first cousin's usually forbidden under Russian Orthodox law
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Would have likely provided a stronger succession in OTL Nicholas' heir was his sick son then Michael with no legitimate male heir then Vladimir with no male heir until 1917 and then his disreputable brothers - Michael would have not been forced into exile as in otl for marrying his mistress and might have had a closer more influential role in the early years of the first world war - though a nominally German wife might have proved problematic for him as it did for his brother.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Name of Czar: Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovitch (succeeded his brother Nicholas II on the latter's abdication)
Name of possible consort: Princess Beatrice Leopoldine Victoria of Great Britain and Ireland Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (chose to use the name Marie Alexandrovna in honour of her mother)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Marriage forbidden by Nicholas II on the grounds they were first cousin's usually forbidden under Russian Orthodox law
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: Would have likely provided a stronger succession in OTL Nicholas' heir was his sick son then Michael with no legitimate male heir then Vladimir with no male heir until 1917 and then his disreputable brothers - Michael would have not been forced into exile as in otl for marrying his mistress and might have had a closer more influential role in the early years of the first world war - though a nominally German wife might have proved problematic for him as it did for his brother.

It would be interesting but it would not be to the taste of the church

 

[JonasResende]

It would be interesting but it would not be to the taste of the church

TBH, since Pyotr the Great the church had had its power broken. It was still influential and wasn't as gagged as in some other states, but they'd allowed Romanovs to wed first cousins before (Ekaterina Pavlovna weds two first cousins one after the other; her brother Mikhail and his wife were also first cousins (once removed)). Thus, if the emperor says said match us to happen between first cousins, there IS a precedent which means the church CAN and WILL object, probably threaten with hellfire and damnation, but IMO they don't really have a leg to stand on.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Ok

 

[Emperor of Panama]

By the way, some of you have some hypothetical couple for the Zarevich Alexis?

 

[JonasResende]

By the way, some of you have some hypothetical couple for the Zarevich Alexis?

Well it depend if Alexei is still OTL Alexei or if he has a different mother or simply no haemophilia. Or which year he's born. IDR anyone ever being mentioned/considered for him OTL.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Well it depend if Alexei is still OTL Alexei or if he has a different mother or simply no haemophilia. Or which year he's born. IDR anyone ever being mentioned/considered for him OTL.

Both options would be interesting. for a moment I would be with a different mother and born in 1904, I suppose

 

[JonasResende]

Both options would be interesting. for a moment I would be with a different mother and born in 1904, I suppose

Well it would depend on who his mother is. Nicky was likened to a pillow, he bore the impression of whoever had sat on him last. So, likely who the czarevich marries is her influencing Nicky. If said empress and Maria Feodorovna are on the same length-wave it will be a non-German princess. If she and Maria are NOT (as in OTL) she might push for a German. However, political necessities of when the czarevich marries need to be considered. Is he heir apparent to the world's largest empire or is he sitting in exile/house imprisonment?

The personality of his mother is going to have a big impact on Nicky. If she's quiet and apolitical (like Alexander I's wife) and solely supports Nicky telling him it's okay when he whines vs she's shy/aloof and retiring/snobbish (like Alicky was OTL) and meddles politically vs she's decisive and got a strong personality but with the political nous to fill the vacuum Nicky leaves (like Yelizaveta Petrovna, Ekaterina II, Natalia Alexeïevna or the first Maria Feodorovna). Personally, I think some combo between options 1&3 would be best.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Well it would depend on who his mother is. Nicky was likened to a pillow, he bore the impression of whoever had sat on him last. So, likely who the czarevich marries is her influencing Nicky. If said empress and Maria Feodorovna are on the same length-wave it will be a non-German princess. If she and Maria are NOT (as in OTL) she might push for a German. However, political necessities of when the czarevich marries need to be considered. Is he heir apparent to the world's largest empire or is he sitting in exile/house imprisonment?

The personality of his mother is going to have a big impact on Nicky. If she's quiet and apolitical (like Alexander I's wife) and solely supports Nicky telling him it's okay when he whines vs she's shy/aloof and retiring/snobbish (like Alicky was OTL) and meddles politically vs she's decisive and got a strong personality but with the political nous to fill the vacuum Nicky leaves (like Yelizaveta Petrovna, Ekaterina II, Natalia Alexeïevna or the first Maria Feodorovna). Personally, I think some combo between options 1&3 would be best.

Well, what I think. His mother, I think, should be the Montenegrin Elena, and regarding political needs, it would still be the Zarevich of Russia.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Name of Czar: Grand Duke Alexei Nikolaevich (future Alexis II)
Name of possible consort: Princess Ileana of Romania (chose to use the name Elena Feodorovna)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Because Alexei died :'v
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: It would entrangle Russia in a mega-alliance with Romania.
I think this is the most likely, apparently they were friends in childhood. As a given I think they will have children at an early age for safety.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Grand Duke Alexei Nikolaevich (future Alexis II)
Name of possible consort: Princess Ileana of Romania (chose to use the name Elena Feodorovna)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Because Alexei died :'v
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: It would entrangle Russia in a mega-alliance with Romania.
I think this is the most likely, apparently they were friends in childhood. As a given I think they will have children at an early age for safety.

They might've been childhood friends, but Marie of Romania was no great fan of Alexandra or her children. The kids because of the fact Olga's last marriage offer before 1917 came from Carol II of Romania, and Marie expressed fears that any kids would have "that bad blood" from Alexandra. But IDK what was Marie's reason for disliking Alexandra herself.

As to a match between Alexei and Ileana, would the Orthodox allow such a marriage between (2e) cousins? Nikolai II vetoed a couple of his brother Mikhail's marriage plans since they were with cousins (Marie's sister, Beatrice) and Grand Duke Kirill got some very dirty looks when he married both a divorcée and a cousin (Marie's sister). @Valena can you help?

 

[Valena]

2nd cousins were relatively OK (for example, Catherine II and Peter III were second cousins). First cousins were taboo.

 

[Emperor of Panama]

They might've been childhood friends, but Marie of Romania was no great fan of Alexandra or her children. The kids because of the fact Olga's last marriage offer before 1917 came from Carol II of Romania, and Marie expressed fears that any kids would have "that bad blood" from Alexandra. But IDK what was Marie's reason for disliking Alexandra herself.

As to a match between Alexei and Ileana, would the Orthodox allow such a marriage between (2e) cousins? Nikolai II vetoed a couple of his brother Mikhail's marriage plans since they were with cousins (Marie's sister, Beatrice) and Grand Duke Kirill got some very dirty looks when he married both a divorcée and a cousin (Marie's sister). @Valena can you help?

Wow, I did not know they were second cousins. Well, then the closest thing is Greece. Any option? Although I think they may have the same problem as Ileana. And if the Orthodox would accept Ileana as Czarina, you have already mentioned it in this thread

 

[JonasResende]

2nd cousins were relatively OK (for example, Catherine II and Peter III were second cousins). First cousins were taboo.

Ok thanks. Wasn't sure.

Wow, I did not know they were second cousins. Well, then the closest thing is Greece. Any option? Although I think they may have the same problem as Ileana. And if the Orthodox would accept Ileana as Czarina, you have already mentioned it in this thread

So we have Empress Elena Feodorovna. And going by what I know of Ileana's life, she was pretty devoted to her charities and hospitals, so I think she'd be a lot more visible than Alexandra was. Of course, we're sidestepping the elephant in the room of how do we avoid the Russian Revolutions that Alexei becomes emperor. Or do he and Ileana marry in exile?

 

[mcdnab]

The Greek's are second cousins which is usually okay - William of Denmark (George I of Greece) brother of Marie Feodorovna of Russia - so their children are first cousins but grandchildren are second cousins -
Princess Helen (b1896) our time married Carol of Roumania and Irene (b1904) married in OTL the Duke of Aosta - daughters of Constantine I of Greece and Sophie of Prussia - they are double second cousins (paternally through descent from Christian IX of Denmark and maternally through Victoria of Great Britain and are also related through common descent from Nicholas I of Russia through George I's wife Olga)
Olga, Elizabeth and Marina of Greece and Denmark (though they were grandchildren of George I they were also grandchildren through their mother of Vladimir Alexandrovitch brother of Alexander III - so double second cousins again)
Other options with Greek and Russian descent were Grand Duke George and Marie of Greece's daughter's - Nina Georgievna and Xenia Georgievna.
There's also Margarita and Theodora of Greece and Denmark (their father was Prince Andrew) they are 1st cousins once removed as well as second cousins (their mother was the Empress Alexandra's niece)

 

[JonasResende]

The Greek's are second cousins which is usually okay - William of Denmark (George I of Greece) brother of Marie Feodorovna of Russia - so their children are first cousins but grandchildren are second cousins -
Princess Helen (b1896) our time married Carol of Roumania and Irene (b1904) married in OTL the Duke of Aosta - daughters of Constantine I of Greece and Sophie of Prussia - they are double second cousins (paternally through descent from Christian IX of Denmark and maternally through Victoria of Great Britain and are also related through common descent from Nicholas I of Russia through George I's wife Olga)
Olga, Elizabeth and Marina of Greece and Denmark (though they were grandchildren of George I they were also grandchildren through their mother of Vladimir Alexandrovitch brother of Alexander III - so double second cousins again)
Other options with Greek and Russian descent were Grand Duke George and Marie of Greece's daughter's - Nina Georgievna and Xenia Georgievna.
There's also Margarita and Theodora of Greece and Denmark (their father was Prince Andrew) they are 1st cousins once removed as well as second cousins (their mother was the Empress Alexandra's niece)

I think any marriage would be better than the trashcan fire that was Helena and Carol's OTL marriage.

 

[The_Most_Happy]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II
Name of possible consort: Margarethe of Prussia (becomes Maria Pavlovna to highlight her descent from Paul I via her paternal grandmother)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Nicky wasn't interested, he was already in Alix of Hesse's hooks by then
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: She wasn't Alix of Hesse, so no hemophilia, no tantrums, no weird mystics. OTL, Margarethe had six sons and two sets of twins who all survived, so them having healthy children and a son sooner rather than later is easy to assume.

 

[JonasResende]

Name of Czar: Nicholas II
Name of possible consort: Margarethe of Prussia (becomes Maria Pavlovna to highlight her descent from Paul I via her paternal grandmother)
Why the marriage plans foundered OTL: Nicky wasn't interested, he was already in Alix of Hesse's hooks by then
Results of a successful marriage into Russia: She wasn't Alix of Hesse, so no hemophilia, no tantrums, no weird mystics. OTL, Margarethe had six sons and two sets of twins who all survived, so them having healthy children and a son sooner rather than later is easy to assume.

Interesting choice. Though the question of how does this match happen with a fiercely anti-Prussian Empress Maria Feodorovna (which I think may have been another spoke in this wheel OTL) springs to mind

 

[The_Most_Happy]

@JonasResende Maria Feodorovna was anti-Prussian but she was way more anti-Alix (as I currently captain that team, I can't blame her). She and Alexander III originally wanted Nicky to marry Princess Helene of Orleans but when that didn't work out and he stayed stuck on Alix, they more or less sent out feelers to every princess possivle, including Margarethe, they were that against Nicky marrying Alix

 

[Emperor of Panama]

Ok