Allies invaded Franco's Spain after Nazi Germany defeat

Sport25ing

Sport25ing

"At the 1945 Potsdam Conference, Josef Stalin demanded of the western Allies that they invade Spain and eliminate Franco’s regime as a precondition of the USSR entering the war against Japan. This was immediately rejected out of hand. Stalin then progressively lowered the bar, demanding a strategic bombing campaign, then a naval blockade, then a trade embargo; all of which were also rejected. The USA and Great Britain eventually agreed to a ban on weapons sales just to move the conference along."

So, what if they have invaded?
 

Peg Leg Pom

Yes, and that's probably part of what Stalin was hoping for. It's in his interests to have the Western Democracies bogged down in Spain with resentful, disillusioned troops.
 

Lalli

Spain would collapse in weeks and democracy would be restored.

But I doubt that Alliew would do that. Franco begun act nice guy for Allies already in 1944.
 

ASUKIRIK

Banned
Lalli said:
Spain would collapse in weeks and democracy would be restored.

But I doubt that Alliew would do that. Franco begun act nice guy for Allies already in 1944.
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I would think that the Allies would be bogged down in Spain and thus becoming a weak prey for Soviet aggression later on though.
 

Iggies

Peg Leg Pom said:
It'll be a very short war followed by a long insurgency.
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I don't know. There was a Republican insurgency after the end of the SCW but it wasn't massive and it mostly petered out within the next decade or so. I don't see why a pro-Franco insurgency would last much longer, especially once fascism's been internationally discredited, and especially if the Allies help repair Spain's shattered economy, feed her people, etc.

At least half of the country would welcome Allied troops as liberators--particularly in Catalonia and Andalusia, one or the other of which I assume would serve as an invasion beachhead.

Allied invasion c.1944-45 might have been the best outcome for twentieth century Spain.
 

Saint_007

The only reason I can see for the Allies to fight Franco is if he was actively hindering the WAllied war effort, sending ships to harass Allied shipping through the Strait of Gibraltar, or officially at war with them. Franco, of course, did neither; he was no fool, and he knew his country could barely stand after a sustained civil war. He gave Hitler a long list of requirements for Spain to enter the war, because that was what Spain needed to be able to fight. Hitler decided it wasn't worth it, and ignored Spain for the rest of the war.

So as it stands, it would basically be suicide for Franco to give the Allies an excuse.

If they did invade, though, it would be (as they said) a short war followed by a long insurgency. The Spanish army of the time had quite a few veteran soldiers, yes, but they had spent so much money, materiel, and blood winning the war they could barely fight a strong, mechanized army with full aerial and artillery support like the Americans. Furthermore, the WAllied forces would be rather elite themselves by the time Germany capitulated, having learned from grueling combat against the Wehrmacht.

That said, Spain is excellent protracted combat terrain. It's rough and hilly, especially in the north, and its people had been fighting for their lives since the 19th century. That creates a hardy breed of fighters. The Spanish veterans would have home field advantage, and would bleed the Allies for every inch, though they would sorely lack anti-armor capabilities and AAA.

However, one factor that should be remembered is that Franco's regime has quite a few enemies; liberals and Communists who didn't quite catch the first ship out when the Republicans were beaten. They would have gone underground, and many of them would be brutally purged over the coming decades. By 1945, however, there'd still be a sizable amount of them left, and they would gladly help the WAllies take down the Generalissimo. The Communist diehards would be a more wildcard factor, equally willing to help and hinder the WAllies to advance their own agendas.
 

Look More Closely Later

Sport25ing said:
"At the 1945 Potsdam Conference, Josef Stalin demanded of the western Allies that they invade Spain and eliminate Franco’s regime as a precondition of the USSR entering the war against Japan. This was immediately rejected out of hand. Stalin then progressively lowered the bar, demanding a strategic bombing campaign, then a naval blockade, then a trade embargo; all of which were also rejected. The USA and Great Britain eventually agreed to a ban on weapons sales just to move the conference along."

So, what if they have invaded?
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Churchill writes (The Second World War, volume VI, 'Potsdam: The Polish Frontiers') that Spain was brought up during the third and fourth meetings.
By that point Churchill and Truman (see the earlier chapter, 'Potsdam: The Atomic Bomb') knew that the atomic bomb test was already successful and that they '...should not need the Russians...' They had '...no need to ask favours of them...'
Sure it would be nice to have Russian help dealing with Imperial Japan, but at that point they have no need to attack Spain on Stalin's say-so unless Franco has done something he didn't do in the original timeline which has really upset them.
Also, the UK has run out of manpower at this point, there's a General Election looming, and the last thing Churchill is going to want to do (again, unless Franco has done something he didn't do in the original timeline) is to start another war.
All that said, presumably if the British do fight, a logical thing to do may be to invite their old allies, the Portuguese, to join in.
 

Belisarius II

The whole idea is silly. The Allies had come to terms with Franco. The Spanish Civil war had divided the American People. Catholics, and conservative Americans didn't want a Communist Victory in Spain. In 1945 neither the British, or American People wanted another war. Fighting a war for Stalin would've been a political disaster for the Truman Administration.
 

Saint_007

Belisarius II said:
The whole idea is silly. The Allies had come to terms with Franco. The Spanish Civil war had divided the American People. Catholics, and conservative Americans didn't want a Communist Victory in Spain. In 1945 neither the British, or American People wanted another war. Fighting a war for Stalin would've been a political disaster for the Truman Administration.
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Exactly. The only way the WAllies would have invaded Spain is if Franco does the stupid thing and declare war on them, and then actively helps Germany in the Mediterranean and North Africa.
 

Belisarius II

Master Xion said:
And why would there be an insurgency?
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Because foreign powers were invading the country, in an unprovoked aggression. Also most of the country didn't want a communist regime imposed on them, for the benefit of Stalin. A Western Invasion would have plunged Spain back into a bloody fratricidal Civil War, that only the Communists would have benefited from. The whole idea is crazy.
 

Iggies

Belisarius II said:
Because foreign powers were invading the country, in an unprovoked aggression. Also most of the country didn't want a communist regime imposed on them, for the benefit of Stalin. A Western Invasion would have plunged Spain back into a bloody fratricidal Civil War, that only the Communists would have benefited from. The whole idea is crazy.
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There's absolutely no way an Anglo-American invasion of Spain would end up with a communist government in power. Moreover, while most of the country might not have wanted a Stalinist regime, I'd wager a very large part of the population would have preferred it to Franco (or at least, preferred what they imagined a Stalinist regime to be to what they knew Franco to be).
 

Belisarius II

Iggies said:
There's absolutely no way an Anglo-American invasion of Spain would end up with a communist government in power. Moreover, while most of the country might not have wanted a Stalinist regime, I'd wager a very large part of the population would have preferred it to Franco (or at least, preferred what they imagined a Stalinist regime to be to what they knew Franco to be).
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So whom do the Allies put in charge when they leave? That vast Centrist majority, just waiting in the Wings, for just this stroke of luck? The Center had collapsed in Spain in the mid 1930's, and the Nation had been polarized between Right & Left. All the propertied classes, along with the Church had sided with General Franco, the Army, and the Phalangists to protect them from the Communists, and Anarchists. For most Spaniards Franco's regime seemed moderate compared to a Red Terror.
 
Jape

Jape

What if Franco is taken out of the picture (naturally or otherwise) during the war and a more overtly fascist regime emerges, one that's less pragmatic about Spain's position? Perhaps joining the war or simply being more antagonistic to the Allies. However in such a situation I imagine Britain and the United States wouldn't wait for Stalin's request to cross the Pyrenees. As @Look More Closely Later mentioned, it might also be an excellent opportunity for Salazar to reinforce his position with the Allies by lending a hand. After all, if they're invading the Spanish State, there will no doubt be hawks calling for them to push on to Lisbon to ride Europe of fascism.

The only way I can see it happening under Franco is if there's some incident, like Spanish troops accidentally cross the border into France hunting Maquis; there's a clash with some US troops in the area at night, few dead on either side, there's escalation. Franco would have to stumble into war, I feel.
 

Dilvish

Belisarius II said:
So whom do the Allies put in charge when they leave? That vast Centrist majority, just waiting in the Wings, for just this stroke of luck? The Center had collapsed in Spain in the mid 1930's, and the Nation had been polarized between Right & Left. All the propertied classes, along with the Church had sided with General Franco, the Army, and the Phalangists to protect them from the Communists, and Anarchists. For most Spaniards Franco's regime seemed moderate compared to a Red Terror.
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I was thinking the same question, who do the Allies put in charge? Also, which of the Allies is in charge in the meantime?
 
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