Sior
Banned
The VTOL from the Resistance series.
I just think it looks awesome
I see your tilt rotor and raise you the Fairey Rotodyne (far more capable than modern tilt rotors)
aircraft that should have been built
- Thread starter AdA
- Start date
- Status
I see your tilt rotor and raise you the Fairey Rotodyne (far more capable than modern tilt rotors)
I'd forgotten about the F-11 Super Tiger. Those puppies would've been very useful over North Vietnam alongside F-8s.
B-71: a Kelly Johnson proposal for a bomber version of the SR-71. Four B-43 type gravity bombs along the sides of the aircraft (two to a side and in internal bays-one bomb to a bay), and/or a rotary launcher for SRAMs. Paper design only, but if built, they would've had the same features of the SRs: speed and some stealth.
F-12B: Interceptor version of the SR. Four AIM-47 Falcon AAMs and Mach 3+ speed. Another MacNamara casualty....ugh. That man had no business being SECDEF at all.
FB-111H: super Vark to replace FB-111As in SAC. On paper only, and not pursued after B-1A cancellation.
B-71: a Kelly Johnson proposal for a bomber version of the SR-71. Four B-43 type gravity bombs along the sides of the aircraft (two to a side and in internal bays-one bomb to a bay), and/or a rotary launcher for SRAMs. Paper design only, but if built, they would've had the same features of the SRs: speed and some stealth.
F-12B: Interceptor version of the SR. Four AIM-47 Falcon AAMs and Mach 3+ speed. Another MacNamara casualty....ugh. That man had no business being SECDEF at all.
FB-111H: super Vark to replace FB-111As in SAC. On paper only, and not pursued after B-1A cancellation.
Two from Boeing that could've seen service in WW II:
PBB-1 Sea Ranger: probably the best flying boat the Navy didn't acquire in WW II. Cancelled due to the engines being needed for the B-29 program.
F8B: The first real "strike fighter". A plane that not only could tangle with the bad guys air-to-air, but also put a lot of hurt on them in ground attack or war-at-sea ops. Trouble was, the Corsair, Hellcat, and the Bearcat were available (or about to be in the F8F's case) for the former, and the AD Skyraider was in the pipeline.
And one from Beechcraft: A-38 Grizzly. A potentially devastating attack bird, with a 75-mm gun and two .50s in the nose, plus twin .50s in dorsal and ventral turrets. Again, a victim of the engines being needed for the B-29. Reliable, rugged, and easily serviced in the field. AAF test pilots loved it. The aircraft met or exceeded all performance specs, but since the B-29 had priority.....
PBB-1 Sea Ranger: probably the best flying boat the Navy didn't acquire in WW II. Cancelled due to the engines being needed for the B-29 program.
F8B: The first real "strike fighter". A plane that not only could tangle with the bad guys air-to-air, but also put a lot of hurt on them in ground attack or war-at-sea ops. Trouble was, the Corsair, Hellcat, and the Bearcat were available (or about to be in the F8F's case) for the former, and the AD Skyraider was in the pipeline.
And one from Beechcraft: A-38 Grizzly. A potentially devastating attack bird, with a 75-mm gun and two .50s in the nose, plus twin .50s in dorsal and ventral turrets. Again, a victim of the engines being needed for the B-29. Reliable, rugged, and easily serviced in the field. AAF test pilots loved it. The aircraft met or exceeded all performance specs, but since the B-29 had priority.....
in defence of the Fw187
The original Fw187 was a fighter, but there is no reason it could not have been built in dedicated variants for other roles, such as:
Long range Photo recce. You don't need a co-pilot to overfly targets and take pictures, see all the fine work PR spitfires did;
Ground attack with all kinds of external stores and extra guns
Bomber destroyer (in later versions) with Mk103 30mm guns and DB605 engines. Even later with DB603 engines
Torpedo attack. If they could put a torpedo in a Fw190 why not in the Fw187?
Tank buster with a 50mm Gun and extra armour.
The design had the potencial to take newer engines and do anything that a single seater could do.
For the night fighter role the Germans could build more Ju88 nightfighters at first and than build more of the excelent He219.
As for the F11F, I'd still go for a landbased F8. The later versions could carry a decent attack load. I'd just swap the four outdated guns for a single vulcan.
Another one I'd would have liked to see being built was the Su8.
Massive firepower, great armour, good range, it would have been the ultimate COIN aircraft. Too bad it would have been on the wrong side. Maybe a few of them would have survived to straff UNITA rebels in Angola or Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
The original Fw187 was a fighter, but there is no reason it could not have been built in dedicated variants for other roles, such as:
Long range Photo recce. You don't need a co-pilot to overfly targets and take pictures, see all the fine work PR spitfires did;
Ground attack with all kinds of external stores and extra guns
Bomber destroyer (in later versions) with Mk103 30mm guns and DB605 engines. Even later with DB603 engines
Torpedo attack. If they could put a torpedo in a Fw190 why not in the Fw187?
Tank buster with a 50mm Gun and extra armour.
The design had the potencial to take newer engines and do anything that a single seater could do.
For the night fighter role the Germans could build more Ju88 nightfighters at first and than build more of the excelent He219.
As for the F11F, I'd still go for a landbased F8. The later versions could carry a decent attack load. I'd just swap the four outdated guns for a single vulcan.
Another one I'd would have liked to see being built was the Su8.
Massive firepower, great armour, good range, it would have been the ultimate COIN aircraft. Too bad it would have been on the wrong side. Maybe a few of them would have survived to straff UNITA rebels in Angola or Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka.
Last edited:
I can. The B-70 design is meant for speed, but the thing has massive wings and six engines. What I'm envisioning it doing is just getting there faster, which from a flexibility standpoint is actually a good thing. The B-1 was designed with much the same ideas in mind as the Valkyrie, and its used more often than the B-52s is over Afghanistan, and for that purpose - big loads of dumb bombs. Later B-70s meant for low-level penetration could gain the terrain-following radar from the F-111 and ditched the YJ-39 turbojets for turbofans. This reduces speed into the Mid-Mach 2 area, but takes an aircraft with an already huge range and improves it even further. The B-70 really shoulda been built, because the USAF ten years after it died was looking for a new bomber project again, which is how the B-1 came to be. What did ya spend a billion and a half (in 1960 dollars, no less) for, guys?
The picture does not portray the "Shinden". The one portrayed looks more like a Vultee XP-54, an aircraft of limited distinction. Perhaps a Saab.
I hate to disagree but the B-70 and the B-1 were designed, yes for bombing but one at extreme height and at high speed and the other at low level. The B-70 was made obsolete by the rapid development of SAMs (1960 and Gary Powers) along with the introduction of ICBM's - the Missile Gap was a falacy and no longer needed filling. The Valkyrie would have been a massive waste of resources at a time when defense spending was reaching a peak. It's important to remember that the B-1 was only saved from the scrapheap thanks to Regans massive military buildup.
I can understand people’s obsession with massive cutting edge mach whatever+ but the financial, political, social and military realities often escape them.
My list of should have seen service aircraft:
Canada:
Canadair CL-84 Dynavert - Tilt wings wouldn't make good attack platforms but the potential for transport (military, civilian and commercial) and light transport (private flight and military reconnaissance) was extensive and could have given the Canadian aviation industry a considerable boost. Either that, or it would prove to be too small a niche and destroy it completely.
Great Britain
Martin Baker MB5 - Captain Eric Brown, the man who holds the record for the most different types of aircraft ever flown said it was the greatest piston powered fighter he ever flew. Would have been a good long range escort fighter for the Far East as well as giving the RAF a strong and able fighter to plug the fighter gap until second generation jets (and jet engines) were able to completely replace piston powered fighters.
Hawker P.1081 - Could have plugged Britain’s fighter gap in the early 50's - no need for Canadair Sabers. Equally, could have been an excellent competitor to the F-86 and may have allowed the development of the Hawker Hunter as a transonic machine.
Hawker P.1121 - Britain’s answer to the Phantom II. Could have been the first major fighter powered by a turbofan (Conway or Medway). Would have been huge though - at 67 feet for the single seat version (70 feet for the twin seat) but still could have lasted through until the 80's, allowing the venerable but obsolete EE Lightning to be retired either in the late 70's or early 80's. It could have been produced in enough numbers to preserve Britain’s aviation industry into the 70's or even the 80's.
United States
Grumman F11F Super Tiger - Good all round little fighter - cheap and capable it could have been the real freedom fighter. Probably pull the pants down on the Straighter any day of the week.
Russell
I can understand people’s obsession with massive cutting edge mach whatever+ but the financial, political, social and military realities often escape them.
My list of should have seen service aircraft:
Canada:
Canadair CL-84 Dynavert - Tilt wings wouldn't make good attack platforms but the potential for transport (military, civilian and commercial) and light transport (private flight and military reconnaissance) was extensive and could have given the Canadian aviation industry a considerable boost. Either that, or it would prove to be too small a niche and destroy it completely.
Great Britain
Martin Baker MB5 - Captain Eric Brown, the man who holds the record for the most different types of aircraft ever flown said it was the greatest piston powered fighter he ever flew. Would have been a good long range escort fighter for the Far East as well as giving the RAF a strong and able fighter to plug the fighter gap until second generation jets (and jet engines) were able to completely replace piston powered fighters.
Hawker P.1081 - Could have plugged Britain’s fighter gap in the early 50's - no need for Canadair Sabers. Equally, could have been an excellent competitor to the F-86 and may have allowed the development of the Hawker Hunter as a transonic machine.
Hawker P.1121 - Britain’s answer to the Phantom II. Could have been the first major fighter powered by a turbofan (Conway or Medway). Would have been huge though - at 67 feet for the single seat version (70 feet for the twin seat) but still could have lasted through until the 80's, allowing the venerable but obsolete EE Lightning to be retired either in the late 70's or early 80's. It could have been produced in enough numbers to preserve Britain’s aviation industry into the 70's or even the 80's.
United States
Grumman F11F Super Tiger - Good all round little fighter - cheap and capable it could have been the real freedom fighter. Probably pull the pants down on the Straighter any day of the week.
Russell
abc123
Banned
Three questions:
1) if Hawker 1081 is built, would HMG still buy DH Venom/Vampire Javelin and other such aircrafts?
2) was Hawker 1121 single or double engined?
3) if UK buys Avro Arrow, would UK stil buy EE Lightning?
Last edited:
Fixed forward-firing armament of 4 x 45mm cannon and 8 x 7.62mm MGs.
Also: Vickers Venom as an FAA fighter
Whoops, my mistake. Yeah... It's not the Shinden. The Shinden wouldn't have had looked like a pusher variant of the P-38. It's most definitely a Jap copy of the Saab pusher fighter. Still, you gotta admit that it looks awesome.
Also: Vickers Venom as an FAA fighter
KyleB, if you look closely at the wing on the Venom, you will note that the wing is constant chord and thickness, great if you're building a DH-2 Beaver STOL but not the wing of a high speed fighter. The Gloster F5/34 wasn't very sophisticated in many regards, but it had a better wing. The difference in performance between the Hurricane/Spitfire or Mosquito/Beaufighter is largely in the wing. Also, the difference between the Typhoon and Tempest.
The Arsenal VG fighters. Less than 10 served with France before it surrendered. The last variant, the VG-39bis, could have had Yak-3 level performance by late 1940.
See more from this thread:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2777
Last edited:
- Status