AHC/WI: Ex-Confederates Deported Emasse

[Casting Crown]

I live in Ireland in county Limerick but lived in the city of Beflast in the 1990s.

You know an impressive amount about your family.

I don't know anything about mine.

 

[BELFAST]

You know an impressive amount about your family.

I don't know anything about mine.

unfortunately, family records only go back to 1800 on my father's side as the records were lost before that in the four-court fire. even then there are gaps due the records that were burnt.

Centuries of documents burned in the Four Courts in 1922. Now they’re being recreated

Virtual Record Treasury of Ireland follows a global effort to recover destroyed items

www.irishtimes.com

There are people in England who can trace their roots back to the 1200s

 

[Casting Crown]

unfortunately, family records only go back to 1800 on my father's side as the records were lost before that in the four-court fire. even then there are gaps due the records that were burnt.

Centuries of documents burned in the Four Courts in 1922. Now they’re being recreated

Virtual Record Treasury of Ireland follows a global effort to recover destroyed items

www.irishtimes.com

There are people in England who can trace their roots back to the 1200s

I assume there's some Czechs or Polish people in my background cuz of my mother's before she got married name and I think mines English. I don't know who what were or when.

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Whoever said anything about ethnic cleansing? It's about expulsion based on treason, not ethnicity. There were plenty of Southern white patriots who were loyal Americans and fought for the United States. The traitors demeaned them as "scallawags". They would have been quite safe.

If you take not only only Confederate government and military officials but all ex-Confederate soldiers and their families and deport them as well, you are going to end up deporting millions of deportees, which isn’t the best route to go down especially if you want to re-integrate white southerners back into the Union. The US would be seen as ethnically cleansing the South if you expel millions of people, whether or not that is its intent.

 

[raharris1973]

even by purely objective standards one cannot help but notice there were a number of things that simply could have gone better with Reconstruction, to various extents, even if you only approach it from the standards of its own day

What about a simple one, not requiring much anachronistic or politically bold or 'out-of-the-box' thinking. What does delaying the Panic of 1873, and any similarly serious panics, for 5 years, thus past the 1876 election, do for the trajectory of Reconstruction and Jim Crow?

In regards to the bold-this is a good point, and even by purely objective standards one cannot help but notice there were a number of things that simply could have gone better with Reconstruction, to various extents, even if you only approach it from the standards of its own day.....and that I have noticed that a number of Reconstruction pessimists either tend have a rather pessimistic outlook in general.....

Remember though, this thread premise isn't only, or directly, or centrally, a reconstruction optimism thread, it's a particularly pernicious sub-species of them popular on the board, it's optimistically accelerate racial progress a century by unleashing an array of punitive measures unparalleled in breadth and severity in American history, what I nicknamed a 'Django Unchained' revenge fantasy. Counter-arguers against the OP are rightfully questioning how you get the govt and body politic to have the stomach to take those punitive measures, how/why it would introduce them now without prior precedents in US history, how do you use them and maybe achieve something good on one value scale (say breadth of Freedmen property ownership) without punitive politics becoming a routine bad habit after every American political struggle?

 

[BELFAST]

I assume there's some Czechs or Polish people in my background cuz of my mother's before she got married name and I think mines English. I don't know who what were or when.

You could try some of the DNA companies that might give you some idea of your background.
Names in America were often changed at Ellis Island or later to fit in.
I worked with a guy in Rochester NY who was called Wandsworth(an English name) but his family were Polish. The name changed to fit in.
People were put under a lot of pressure to assimilate and forget their past.

 

[Casting Crown]

You could try some of the DNA companies that might give you some idea of your background.
Names in America were often changed at Ellis Island or later to fit in.
I worked with a guy in Rochester NY who was called Wandsworth(an English name) but his family were polished. The name changed to fit in.
People were put under a lot of pressure to assimilate and forget their past.

Nah it'll be alright I don't really care.

Or want to know. oO

We've all been a melting pot somewhere, Europe had Celts, Romans, Germans founding and forcing the people to adapt to your language your culture is just part of the past and even the current.

It doesn't matter who you came from it matters who you are.

 

[Taunay]

What does delaying the Panic of 1873

What caused the Panic?

 

[funnyhat]

After a defeated rebellion, the normal course of action is to punish the leaders and pardon the ordinary participants. You could have the Confederate government members exiled, but there is no particular reason for them to extend this to all the ex-soldiers. Logistically that would be a huge challenge and could backfire, leading to renewed rebellion and possibly public opinion sympathizing with the soldiers.

 

[Legofan4]

Remember though, this thread premise isn't only, or directly, or centrally, a reconstruction optimism thread, it's a particularly pernicious sub-species of them popular on the board, it's optimistically accelerate racial progress a century by unleashing an array of punitive measures unparalleled in breadth and severity in American history, what I nicknamed a 'Django Unchained' revenge fantasy. Counter-arguers against the OP are rightfully questioning how you get the govt and body politic to have the stomach to take those punitive measures, how/why it would introduce them now without prior precedents in US history, how do you use them and maybe achieve something good on one value scale (say breadth of Freedmen property ownership) without punitive politics becoming a routine bad habit after every American political struggle?

I feel like in addition to this it also seems to incorporate modern anti conservative feeling of lets get rid of a large area of the country that is conservative today by exiling all of their ancestors and therefore create a more liberal present.

 

[holycookie]

After a defeated rebellion, the normal course of action is to punish the leaders and pardon the ordinary participants. You could have the Confederate government members exiled, but there is no particular reason for them to extend this to all the ex-soldiers. Logistically that would be a huge challenge and could backfire, leading to renewed rebellion and possibly public opinion sympathizing with the soldiers.

Stranger things than this have happened in the history of the world, they are only rare. But it would weaken the USA for a long time and it will strengthen the place where the confederates go (brazil). This will also slow down the US economy among other things. There is also a loss of knowledge of these people. it's a shot in the foot

 

[69420]

After a defeated rebellion, the normal course of action is to punish the leaders and pardon the ordinary participants. You could have the Confederate government members exiled, but there is no particular reason for them to extend this to all the ex-soldiers. Logistically that would be a huge challenge and could backfire, leading to renewed rebellion and possibly public opinion sympathizing with the soldiers.

The union had draft riots as it is. Exiling top confederates I can see. Trying to exile regular people is simply ASB, if congress all magically went insane and ordered the army to implement it, they would have had guns turned on them and marched straight into insane asylums.