The challenge is to have the Radical Republicans not only come up with the idea to deport (as opposed to other forms of punishment) Ex-Confederate soldiers and collaborators, but have the policy successfully be enacted. Where could they've realistically be sent to, and what sort've effects might this have had on post-War America and the world at large?
AHC/WI: Ex-Confederates Deported Emasse
- Thread starter GlobalHumanism
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The real question is, where would they go? Obviously in real life, ex-confederates established colonies in both Brazil and Northern Mexico. Given what happened in the Mexican American War, I doubt Mexico would accept white Confederates en masse. Maybe Canada, but I doubt they could agree. So where did you imagine them going?
EDIT: They also settled in British Honduras (aka Belize) maybe that could be possible.
EDIT: They also settled in British Honduras (aka Belize) maybe that could be possible.
Deport them where? The Gulf of Mexico? The only people I can realistically imagine getting deported en masse after the war is, sadly , freed slaves.
Casting Crown
Banned
South Africa a large population of English speaking almost anglos should prove to be quite loyal. They could encourage them to go east a bit follow some of Dutch who've been clearing the land for their arrival.
Plenty of ex-Confederates did settle in Canada without issue. I think the biggest objection would actually come from the sane elements of the US government who'd realize that that literally giving the British North American colonies (Canada didn't exist yet at this time) a million-man army would be a geo-strategic catastrophe unequaled in American history.
Casting Crown
Banned
Where they go changes wherever that is, a lot, especially if they all congregate there.
I picked South Africa because well honesty, Stirling.
But now of course that was just my knee jerk.
There's also always Cuba.
If they go to Latin America they probably retain English wherever they set up and keep Confederate symbolism.
Because of course they do, look at this it's from Brazil.
Almost two hundred years later.
Alright so there's that, and the changes that brings to wherever. If there's a strong enough political push said place might end up having issues with the United States.
Now as for it, this won't hurt in the long run but it will in the short-term.
I'm afraid share cropping and all of its horrors of being slavery without slavery still persist.
I mean if, if the Radical Republicans keep power there probably not, and we see earlier equality.
If however a large influx of Midwestern farmers move down there, they probably go right on about business and unpleasantly usual.
The Midwest today is still pretty racist, the descendants of Southerners who left the south to go work in Midwestern factories have separate accents, culture, and basically even towns of their own because they weren't exactly welcomed and given the option to assimilate, this still persist today along with redlined neighborhoods.
Wisconsin seems like they still have Jim Crow in some places.
So I wouldn't count on them improving the conditions of their former enslaved fellow man. Some of them might be downright resentful and blame them for the civil war.
So America will still have it's racial issues unless this can be solved, best to NOT let the carpetbaggers move down there and rather focus on improving the lives of freed slaves. Which means today the south is very different, yet still similar. Foods wouldn't change much, but you'll have the descendants of confederates supprised that the south has familiar foods. They'll be taking that with them and adopting it.
This also changes music in America too, most of our rockabilly music came from black artist who were overshadowed by people who came along and white washed it and stole their sound.
Now not so much.
This also means deporting the Five Tribes of Oklahoma, that'll be a group that probably every now and then tries to sue the US or pressure their government into doing so on their behalf.
Oh and mostly it leads to an entirely different population of the planet due to the butterfly effect, there wouldn't be many doppelgangers of people from OTL there. Different wars, different settlement patterns, everything changes.
Casting Crown
Banned
An interesting one, suppose the British do accept that offer alright we'll take them divide them up most of them end up shunted to South Africa, a good many end up in Australia, the five tribes however end up with the South Island of New Zealand mostly to themselves and carve out the only truly independent Native American origin state, in New Zealand.
Maybe call it New Sequoyah ironically they've been a bit unpleasant over the years to the natives of that island.
They adopt the Sequoyah alphabet too and lay claim to the state of Oklahoma, and or their original homelands.
Now that's an interesting one.
Maybe call it New Sequoyah ironically they've been a bit unpleasant over the years to the natives of that island.
They adopt the Sequoyah alphabet too and lay claim to the state of Oklahoma, and or their original homelands.
Now that's an interesting one.
Would such thing be even practical. Soldiers hardly are just happily leaving USA but they might even begin guerilla war. And it would be consittutionally very problematic since they are technically American citizens.
Unfortunately like previously stated, more plausible is expulsion of freed slaves. There was such plans. Even most of abolotionists hadn't intention give equal rights to freed slaves. They just wanted end slavery, nothing else. They were still totally racist.
Unfortunately like previously stated, more plausible is expulsion of freed slaves. There was such plans. Even most of abolotionists hadn't intention give equal rights to freed slaves. They just wanted end slavery, nothing else. They were still totally racist.
Casting Crown
Banned
It makes you wonder why people would do that, abolitionism should have been about equality too. Kinda terrible thing is that, you're "free" but if your former massa says you owe him debts you do, and don't even think about drinking out of the same fountain as me.
Because treating people like second class trash just for the sin of their skin color won't ever have any negative effects or help ruin the life of another person.
That's absolutely despicable.
Because treating people like second class trash just for the sin of their skin color won't ever have any negative effects or help ruin the life of another person.
That's absolutely despicable.
Utterly impractical. If the question were confederate officials easily plausible. Lincoln even made some comments that he hoped Davis and the others would slip out of the country while his back was turned. To deport every man who served as a soldier, you are talking about deporting something like a million men plus wives and children. The logistics are not possible, meaning that if you actually tried this you are looking at straight-up genocide.
It might be possible if you tried to deport political officials and officers above a certain rank. Of course the problem with this is that this greatly increases the chances that these men will take to the hills and engage in decades of guerilla war.
It might be possible if you tried to deport political officials and officers above a certain rank. Of course the problem with this is that this greatly increases the chances that these men will take to the hills and engage in decades of guerilla war.
Coivara
Banned
"Alright, so we bringing over some new colonists."
"Bet its more pale-skins to shoot at us..."
"No no, I think you guys will like those ones..."
"Greetings children of this land, we are the Five Tribes and..."
"Who the FUCK are you?!"
"Ok so there's this land the white men call America, we come from there and..."
"You WHAT?! We don't know no 'America', friend..."
I think of one, that if Mexico had always remained the second empire, the Confederate colonies like "New Virginia" would have remained, and we would have, as in Brazil, Confederate descendants. We can also increase the number of Confederate emigrants in British Honduras, in Brazil, but why not also in Cuba, but also in a surviving Federal Republic of Central America. Also, I learned that Pierre de Beauregard, a Confederate officer, was offered a military command in Romania and Egypt. On this, as far as emigrants are concerned, I can well imagine a Cuba sold to Belgium in between by Spain, and that Belgium would welcome them with wide open arms. As well as the Boer Republics in South Africa.
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Speaking of Egypt, IIRC there were quite a few former officers, both Confederate and Union, who served in the Khedive's army during the Mahdist War....
But yeah, there was an enormous number of men who had taken up arms for the CSA... attempting to deport them all, and presumably their families too, would be nonsensical and leave large swathes of the South greatly underpopulated... high-ranking officers and "irreconcilable" politicians might be another matter...
But yeah, there was an enormous number of men who had taken up arms for the CSA... attempting to deport them all, and presumably their families too, would be nonsensical and leave large swathes of the South greatly underpopulated... high-ranking officers and "irreconcilable" politicians might be another matter...
And it is only just logisitc nor morality but too who then would farm lands after slaves are freed? Who then would build new railroads and factories? Who would then reconstruct destroyed houses and churches? Northerners just can't do that all.
And if Confederates realise that Unionists will expel them and their families even they who were enforced to serve on Confederate army, would fight to bitter end. That just would make war longer and more devastating and Lincolng wouldn't be remembered as hero but monster who planned ulitmate punishment for his citizens. And this would cause generations lasting bitterness.
It is just better capture soldiers and tell them "go home and don't ever do that again!".
I'm guessing most of them would go to Brazil, largely because they still had their beloved Peculiar Institution.
Would Brazil or any other nation be willingful or able to take hundreds of thousands of angry soldiers?
This wouldn't resonate with anyone beyond the most radical of Republicans. Rebuilding the South would be far more costly with the loss of a million men and presumably their families. It would almost certainly also mean starting the war back up, at a time when everyone's already exhausted. No way this works.