AHC/WI : Dahan instead of Ming

How could Chen Youliang and his faction of Red Turbans could not only defeat Zhu Yuanzhang, but as well re-establish his dynasty as ruling all over China after defeating Yuans?

What would that mean for a Dahan China? Would that mean a lesser focus on Budhism and re-establishment of pre-Mongols traditions?
Or would the more cunning, maybe brutal, nature of Chen Youliang would have different priorities?
 
His navy defected from him. Make it not defect, and it'll all be fine :D

As to Dahan. Er...I know more about the dynasties than the periods between the dynasties. Sorry about that, though.
 
His navy defected from him. Make it not defect, and it'll all be fine :D
When did it happened? I just went quickly into its story (and posted when I got some informations, as it seemed an interesting PoD), but I don't remember about this.

Anyhow, what could help having more ships (possibly not just big ones, but enough to counter Ming lighter embarkation), and having no defections?
 
How could Chen Youliang and his faction of Red Turbans could not only defeat Zhu Yuanzhang, but as well re-establish his dynasty as ruling all over China after defeating Yuans?

What would that mean for a Dahan China? Would that mean a lesser focus on Budhism and re-establishment of pre-Mongols traditions?
Or would the more cunning, maybe brutal, nature of Chen Youliang would have different priorities?

I was excited for some 大韩, apparently not :(
 
How could Chen Youliang and his faction of Red Turbans could not only defeat Zhu Yuanzhang, but as well re-establish his dynasty as ruling all over China after defeating Yuans?

What would that mean for a Dahan China? Would that mean a lesser focus on Budhism and re-establishment of pre-Mongols traditions?
Or would the more cunning, maybe brutal, nature of Chen Youliang would have different priorities?

The Battle of Poyang Lake in 1363 was the decisive confrontation between Ming and Han, and it absolutely could have gone either way. After that, Chen can follow more or less the same blueprint that Zhu Yuanzhang did IRL in terms of consolidating his strength in the south and ultimately finishing off the remnants of the Yuan. If you want an earlier POD, Zhu lured Chen into a trap at Longwan in 1360, seizing the initiative in the war between Ming and Han and capturing lots of Chen’s ships.

The question of how a dynasty led by Chen would differ from Zhu’s Ming Dynasty is trickier. Both guys had abandoned the millennarian White Lotus Buddhism that characterized the early Red Turbans, so I don’t think you’d see any religious shenanigans from Chen. I’m honestly not sure what the major short-term differences would be. You note the “cunning, brutal nature of Chen Youliang,” and sure, he was both - but so was Zhu Yuanzhang. Maybe the biggest difference would come after Chen was dead. I doubt that any of his offspring could match the grandiose megalomania of the Yongle Emperor in real life.

Also, I have to note that the most interesting character in this period is neither Zhu nor Chen. It’s Ming Yuzhen, the Manichean warlord of Sichuan! I wrote a brief and abortive TL about him here, if you’ll forgive the shameless self-promotion.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Also, I have to note that the most interesting character in this period is neither Zhu nor Chen. It’s Ming Yuzhen, the Manichean warlord of Sichuan! I wrote a brief and abortive TL about him here, if you’ll forgive the shameless self-promotion.


Oh, absolutely. But I'd put Zhang Shicheng up there as well. It'd be interesting to have a post-Yuan dynasty that was started by a merchant...
 
Also, I have to note that the most interesting character in this period is neither Zhu nor Chen. It’s Ming Yuzhen, the Manichean warlord of Sichuan! I wrote a brief and abortive TL about him here, if you’ll forgive the shameless self-promotion.

Super duper good timeline, by the way. I would comment on it to say it was good, but...that road leads to necromancy.

Oh, absolutely. But I'd put Zhang Shicheng up there as well. It'd be interesting to have a post-Yuan dynasty that was started by a merchant...

Yeah, I'd have to agree. A merchant is more interesting than a Manichean simply because religious warlords eventually have to be less religious, like how Zhu and Chen became less Red Turban-ish.

Merchants, on the other hand, have the chance to shape how merchants are seen in China.
 
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