AHC / WI : A muslim germanic people
- Thread starter faddllz
- Start date
I'd look forward to reading it and "al Vandalusia" would be the perfect title.
Last edited:
They would likely undergo Berberization (if they were not already Berber speakers) or Arabization after converting to Islam. Therefore their existence as a sperate muslim Germanic people would be short lived.
If a community of Transylvanian Saxon converts to Islam forms. Then a Muslim Germanic people would exist if the community manages to exist for multiple generations. The community does not have to be large to survive. Though the likelihood of long-term persistence would increase if the community was more populous. Overall, I don't see most Transylvanian Saxons converting maybe somewhere between 1-20%, perhaps 5%. Following the Ottoman lose of territory part of the community might move to what is still Ottoman territory. Perhaps the migration of converts to core Ottoman territory would be necessary, or at least an aiding factor in strengthening the community.
I think Anatolia, the Levant and the Caucasus Regions are probably to far away. It is more likely that the prospective German migrants would settle somewhere in the Balkans.
The conversion might be pragmatic at first, but over time would become their traditional faith.
Would a more successful conquest of Lombard held southern Italy work or were the byzantines too influential for a mega emirate of Sicily to be Germanic?
Many Germanic tribes at least initially had a fear of intermixing with locals. This was true for awhile with the Saxons and Angles in England segregating themselves from the Britons, the Visigoths in Spain, and I would assume the Vandals in north Africa. The Germanic tribes tried to keep a separate identity and even banned interracial marriages. They kept separate law codes for themselves as well as for the local natives. In Visigothic Spain this apartheid system was kept in place for about a century until Reccared, fearing the increasing unrest from his Hispano-Roman native subjects decreed that Visigoths should convert to Roman Catholicism, created a single unified law code for both Goth and native Spanish and encouraged intermarriage to achieve social cohesion in his realm. In Anglo-Saxon England this apartheid system lasted longer, I guess it wouldn't be too implausible for the Vandals to maintain their identity longer as well. Although it wasn't just the Vandals who established a north African kingdom, the Alans (an Iranian tribe) and close ally of the Vandals also settled their with them. In fact Vandal North Africa was called Regnum Vandalorum et Alanorum (Kingdom of the Vandals and Alans) so at this point the Vandals and Alans must have merged at some point and became collectively just known as "Vandals," much like the Angles, Saxons, Frisians, Jutes, Danes merged to become known as Anglo-Saxon or just "English."
The Crimean Tatars might have absorbed some Goths, as they had absorbed many people.
Maybe have some late Pagan Germanics that resistent Christianity OTL been converted to Islam. So maybe the Saxon leader Widukid comes to contact with Islamic travelers which offer Islam as assistance against Frankish genocidel behavior. Out of deaperation the Saxons abandon Paganism and join Islam. Maybe keeping some Pagan Folklore and have a Sufi belief System.
What about Teutonic Order state in Transylvania that is later conquered by Ottomans?
Before Teutonic Knights settled in Prussia they were expelled from Transylvania by Hungarian King Andrew II, despite Pope's protests, as they attempted to carve state for themselves out lands of Kingdom of Hungary.
If there is TO state in Transylvania, that resembles TO state in Prussia then there would be Order's elite on the top-younger sons of aristocrats from HRE, meanwhile local born German burghers would have little to say. That would create resentment against the Order and even Catholic institutions at all, like in OTL Prussia.
If such state is conquered by Ottomans then I can see German burghers abandoning Catholicism en masse, in favour of Protestantism mostly, but some may convert to Islam as well.
Before Teutonic Knights settled in Prussia they were expelled from Transylvania by Hungarian King Andrew II, despite Pope's protests, as they attempted to carve state for themselves out lands of Kingdom of Hungary.
If there is TO state in Transylvania, that resembles TO state in Prussia then there would be Order's elite on the top-younger sons of aristocrats from HRE, meanwhile local born German burghers would have little to say. That would create resentment against the Order and even Catholic institutions at all, like in OTL Prussia.
If such state is conquered by Ottomans then I can see German burghers abandoning Catholicism en masse, in favour of Protestantism mostly, but some may convert to Islam as well.
Last edited:
Map Thread XV
It's alternate history. That's like saying a bigger Holocaust and a Nazi-win on WW2 are disrespectful to write. What people write in alternate history does not reflect on the personal political views of said writer. It isn't alternate history, though, it's future history. The POD is this year...
www.alternatehistory.com
German Islam by QuantumBranching on DeviantArt
www.deviantart.com
Kinda cheating but this scenario proposes an alternate "Islam" developing in Germania, which by default would create german "muslims" and make the faith & the people go hand in hand together
Deleted member 90949
Hitler had a fondness for Islam.
Maybe Positive Islam becomes the state religion of Germany after Endsieg.
Alternatively, the Franks convert to Islam after the defeat at Poitiers shatters their faith in Christ. Then the Mozarabs rebel and take over Iberia. Now there is a reverse Reconquista between Germanic Muslims and Arabic Christians.
Maybe Positive Islam becomes the state religion of Germany after Endsieg.
Alternatively, the Franks convert to Islam after the defeat at Poitiers shatters their faith in Christ. Then the Mozarabs rebel and take over Iberia. Now there is a reverse Reconquista between Germanic Muslims and Arabic Christians.
Have Ottomans win Siege of Vienna 1529 . Might be able to get Austria Converted.
Notwhistanding that this is pre-1900 both those theories are untenable. Hitler wouldn't have converted to a religion that ultimately was full of Untermensch he regarded Arabs as inferior barbarians and privately confided in his confidantes that he only maintained as much of a relationship with Muslim leaders due to political reasons rather than any personal inclinations to convert.
The Franks converting en-masse after a single defeat isn't exactly something thats possible perhaps a monarch could've converted but would the Christian Franks abandon their faith after a single defeat? I doubt it. A reverse reconquista is a cool idea however.
My TL "From the Footnotes to the Centre" has Muslim Crimean Gauts (as did OTL, but I intend for the ones ITTL to survive to the present as a distinct ethnicity).
Last edited:
Ustase got on the honorory Aryan bandwagon, claimed to be Slavic-speaking Goths. They also treated the Muslim/Bosniak population as more or less equal to the Croat/Catholic population. Thus, deep within Axis-collaborator lala-land between '41 and '45, Germanic Muslims were a thing 
Could this be more feasible closer to home in Andalus, closer to the source of Germanic migration? What were the odds of some Vandal or Visigothic nobility converting to Islam out of political convenience, ingratiating themselves to the Umayyads for a few generations, then striking with a pinch of luck and creative liberty to install themselves in power, creating on the Iberian Peninsula a Germanic-speaking state sponsoring Maliki Sunni Islam? It's not like they have to Germanize the whole place, but at least hold on to power long enough to intermix their customs with their new religions, cultivate a culture that can hold out in some corner of the peninsula in the event of an overthrow. It's more likely than not that they'll be wiped out down the line like the Baltic pagans in a "Western Crusade", but survival to the modern time outside of some old manuscripts and artifacts is only a bonus, per OP.
Last edited:
I did, so that's why I said "probably" not "certainly", but circumstances were...not that favorably for Germanic succcess. as far as I remember Talus ended with Sorbians being established as far as western Thuringia, Czechs taking over parts of Bavaria and Carantania freeing itself from Bavarian yoke.