AHC: Union Civil War?

[Vylon Disigma]

After being defeated by the south(and allies) could another Civil War break out in the Union? if so, How?

I suppose the military might try a coup if politics went in a direction they really didn't like.

 

[LuckyLuciano]

Maybe have the border states retain slavery for long enough that New England revolts under the impetus of "No Union with Slaveholders"?

 

[Thisisnotausername]

After being defeated by the south(and allies) could another Civil War break out in the Union? if so, How?

Probably not. There really isn't any issue as big or divisive as slavery was pre-Civil War to trouble the Union in such a scenario.

I suppose the military might try a coup if politics went in a direction they really didn't like.

This would require significant changes to the military's role in US politics.

Maybe have the border states retain slavery for long enough that New England revolts under the impetus of "No Union with Slaveholders"?

No, because the border states would have far less influence over US politics in such a scenario than the pre-war South did, meaning that if anti-slavery sentiment was that strong in New England they'd get it banned instead . If a second Civil War did happen over slavery, more likely it would be one or more of the border states trying to secede in response to the Union outlawing it, although that's likely to either not escalate to the point where it'd be considered a civil war (instead being the Revolt of 1875 or whatever) or else escalate to the point that the Confederacy gets drawn in, in which case it wouldn't really be a Union Civil War.

 

[Vylon Disigma]

Probably not. There really isn't any issue as big or divisive as slavery was pre-Civil War to trouble the Union in such a scenario.

This would require significant changes to the military's role in US politics.

No, because the border states would have far less influence over US politics in such a scenario than the pre-war South did, meaning that if anti-slavery sentiment was that strong in New England they'd get it banned instead . If a second Civil War did happen over slavery, more likely it would be one or more of the border states trying to secede in response to the Union outlawing it, although that's likely to either not escalate to the point where it'd be considered a civil war (instead being the Revolt of 1875 or whatever) or else escalate to the point that the Confederacy gets drawn in, in which case it wouldn't really be a Union Civil War.

Well after a Civil war defeat, especially one in which there was British intervention, the role of the military would very likely change. There is now a need to maintain a large standing army like the Europeans do; because the US now has peer or near-peers militaries on its door step.

Union likely takes a serious shift left after civil war due to loss of the conservative south, which the military, being as reactionary as US institutions ever get, is not gonna like.

French style mutual suspicion between the Gov't and the Military is surely on the table.

 

[Enigmajones]

There was some talk of the border states forming their own Central Confederacy, separate from both the Union or Confederacy, but it never went anywhere.

 

[George Carty]

Surely if there was to be a second confederacy carved out of Union territory it would more likely be the Midwestern states?

 

[GameBawesome]

There was a plot from pro-southern sympathizers in California, to revolt and form a Pacific Republic, but didn’t happen because they couldn’t convince the general in the state to revolt with them (ironically, that general would join the CSA).

There were also the Mormons, where a sect of them was fighting the US. government

There also that suppose plot by a Copperhead politician to take over the Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky, and forming a Northwestern Confederacy.

Also, what would New York City declaring themselves a Free

 

[Thisisnotausername]

Union likely takes a serious shift left after civil war due to loss of the conservative south, which the military, being as reactionary as US institutions ever get, is not gonna like.

I don't really buy this, honestly. The country may have lost its conservative Southern contingent, but so has the military: I would not expect either to move significantly further to the left than the other, certainly not so far that a coup attempt would be on the table.

French style mutual suspicion between the Gov't and the Military is surely on the table.

I'm not convinced, not without a more specific argument than this.

 

[Hugh Third of Five]

Probably not. There really isn't any issue as big or divisive as slavery was pre-Civil War to trouble the Union in such a scenario.

This would require significant changes to the military's role in US politics.

No, because the border states would have far less influence over US politics in such a scenario than the pre-war South did, meaning that if anti-slavery sentiment was that strong in New England they'd get it banned instead . If a second Civil War did happen over slavery, more likely it would be one or more of the border states trying to secede in response to the Union outlawing it, although that's likely to either not escalate to the point where it'd be considered a civil war (instead being the Revolt of 1875 or whatever) or else escalate to the point that the Confederacy gets drawn in, in which case it wouldn't really be a Union Civil War.

Not to mention the carnage (it killed more Americans than all other wars combined) made people reluctant to have another one.

 

[Byzantion]

After being defeated by the south(and allies) could another Civil War break out in the Union? if so, How?

I suppose the military might try a coup if politics went in a direction they really didn't like.

Maybe Draft riot scenario where New York breaks away.
Or maybe military coup against Lincoln of war does drag on. Maybe a Civil War Constitutionalist vs Coupist.

 

[brunohusker]

Not a civil war per se but might Mormons in Utah break away if possible? Especially with the lack of federal troops in the west. Would Brigham Young see his chance to create a nation of Deseret?

 

[raharris1973]

Union likely takes a serious shift left after civil war due to loss of the conservative south,

It depends on your values of left and right.

With fewer agricultural states open to populist appeals for policies friendly to debtors, eastern industrial states may hold a stronger balance of power. They may hold fast against reforms populists supported like recall, initiative, referendum, peacetime income tax, and be for strict hard money policies all the time.