AHC: The Queen refuses to shake someone's hand

[Meadow]

Watching Martin McGuinness' obituary reels today, they made some hay from the 'he shook hands with the monarch of the kingdom he sought to defeat' stuff, as indeed he did. But so too did the Queen – as she always would. Because She's The Queen.

But is there a way to get Her Maj to cause an incident by refusing – either in the moment, or via a subtle message passed to the person she's about to meet (more likely, presumably) – to engage in the ancient gesture of greeting?

The answer may well be 'no'. The only way I can think of is if Thomas MacMahon, effectively the principal figure in the death of Lord Mountbatten, becomes a figure in the peace process and eventually an NI politician of some stature. But that's probably impossible and even then – even then – the Queen would have a decent chance of just grinning and bearing it, as duty requires. Alternatively, meetings in person between the two would simply be tactfully avoided, MacMahon playing along by being unwell or absent whenever the Queen visited.

Still, she shook hands with McGuinness and Charles met Gerry Adams (I suspect the reason the latter has never met Her Maj is similar to my speculations above). Without massive changes to OTL (so no 'the Nazis fight on for ten years and she refuses to shake a German leader's hand or something'), could this happen? And what would the consequences be in your scenario?

 

[Skinny87]

Maybe a regicide of some kind? That might be sufficient to cause an incident. But not sure off hand which country that person might be from.

 

[AgentRudda]

I think the government would massively play it down and pretend it didn't happen. If we take your IRA/Sinn Fein example, the press would be all over it with headlines like "The Queen snubs IRA killer", similar to the Sun's headlines about the Queen voting leave. The public will probably get on her side. It'd be awkward for a while, but everyone except political anoraks like us wouldn't remember it in six months' time.

 

[Skinny87]

Hmm,

Erdogan has been like a bull in a chianti shop recently and pissed off people left, right and centre. Maybe he does or says somethigh sufficiently stupid to piss off Her Maj?

 

[Meadow]

I think the government would massively play it down and pretend it didn't happen. If we take your IRA/Sinn Fein example, the press would be all over it with headlines like "The Queen snubs IRA killer", similar to the Sun's headlines about the Queen voting leave. The public will probably get on her side. It'd be awkward for a while, but everyone except political anoraks like us wouldn't remember it in six months' time.

Yeah, this is likely as whatever she did, she definitely wouldn't pointedly leave someone hanging. She'd briskly move past them as if they weren't there, and if they had any sense of decorum they would have picked up from the body language that this was going to happen.

I think Protocol (of which friends who've been part of royal visits have told me) is that you never offer your hand to the Royal who's visiting, they will do so if it's going to happen. So maybe that's a built-in fool-proof way to avoid this, come to think of it.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Maybe a regicide of some kind? That might be sufficient to cause an incident. But not sure off hand which country that person might be from.

You mean an individual directly involved in the killing of a ruling monarch? I only ask as McGuinness was a high up in the IRA when they killed Mountbatten (and he was a cousin of the Queen) and Her Majesty gripped and grinned anyway.

 

[AlfieJ]

The amount of odious people in hindsight she has been forced to shake hands with i'm kind of stripped for ideas.

 

[Alex Richards]

Maybe somebody like Gadaffi in a 'look we've got to let him have a state visit for reasons, but we're still pretty sure he sponsored acts of terror on UK soil and we're not happy with it.'

Admittedly that would probably only be in a situation where we've allied with him due to somebody even worse coming along but still don't really approve of him.

 

[Geordie]

My initial thought was to raise the stakes from OTL.

If the IRA had killed the Duke of Edinburgh, or one of Elizabeth's children, then that might be sufficient.

However, thinking about it a bit more, it's just not going to happen. If somebody who was heavily involved in the death of one of the Queen's immediate family ended up in a position where a State Visit simply had to happen, then they might try to avoid a meeting. A conveniently timed illness, perhaps, leaving another senior royal to do the job. But could that be done without it looking obvious? On the other hand, if the devotion to duty runs deep enough that she would not leave that task at the door of somebody else in the family, then I suspect she would grin, bear it, and shake the hand, however odious she found it. She swore multiple oaths to do just that. She wouldn't want anybody else in the Firm doing it because she refused. If there is a camera (and there will be) there will be a handshake.

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

The amount of odious people in hindsight she has been forced to shake hands with i'm kind of stripped for ideas.

Yeah, this is where as an American I'm a little stumped, becasue I imagine there have been a lot, so some of my ideas really could have happened but I just don't know about it.

For instance, i can envision a very rude MP normally who winds up getting really drunk, and as the Queen is passing and shaing hands of the various MPs she overhears him making lewd comments and as she comes up to him he suggests that they sleep together. if it got too bad, he would be escorted out of the place, whereas if it wasn't she'd probably just give him the kind of condescending, pitying look that would embarrass the man further, as if to say, "Oh, you are so soused, I feel bad for you because you currently have the mental capacity of a worm."

not only that, but given your comment you'll probably tell me this has actually happened.

Anyway, would a Briton who has spied for the Soviets be someone? I mean, high treason, if he wasn't hanged, might lead to a long time in prison but if he got out a few decades later because the Queen pardoned him for some reason (ill health?) and then he wound up not being one bit contrite and then meeting the Queen...?

Or has this happened before, too?

 

[New Deal Democrat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/4425385.stm

Charles was criticized for shaking Mugabe's hand back at the papal funeral. It seems a simple PoD would be to have Liz attend instead of Charles. Now, if she would avoid the handshake is a completely different question.

As for the MP example wasn't there a Welsh MP who kept referring to the Queen as "Mrs Windsor"? Maybe have them end up at a reception.

 

[desmirelle]

Anyone she isn't going to shake hands with isn't going to be in a receiving line. If they were so rude as to push their way into the line, I suspect security would whisk them away (especially when the person already knows he wasn't invited) for one of those lovely strip searches, complete with a body cavity search, under the guise of 'why else would they do this unless they intend harm or are mental?' and once passing the search, they'd be held in the equivalent of the American observation for mental issues.......

 

[Avrorrange]

Idi Amin travels to Britain.

 

[Colonel Zoidberg]

She's got a really bad cold and tells the other party, "I'm sorry, but I shouldn't. Wouldn't want you to get this. Have a lovely day, good sir." The snubbed recipient smiled and nods.

 

[Clandango]

Idi Amin travels to Britain.

A pretender to the Scottish throne? He would be given the treatment of a Stuart. After all, quite a few people going for the Scottish throne only wanted it in order to use it as a jumping board for the English one.

 

[Avrorrange]

A pretender to the Scottish throne? He would be given the treatment of a Stuart. After all, quite a few people going for the Scottish throne only wanted it in order to use it as a jumping board for the English one.

Reportedly the Queen was openly hostile to the possibility of Idi Amin ever visiting Britain--so much that she was planning to beat him up in person if he ever showed up uninvited.

 

[Catsmate]

She's the Head of State, doing the meet and greet with dubious/unpleasant/murderous people is part of the job. If she really objected then a face-saving excuse would be created.

 

[Ingsoc]

As for the MP example wasn't there a Welsh MP who kept referring to the Queen as "Mrs Windsor"? Maybe have them end up at a reception.

She's head of Plaid Cymru now so I imagine they've met and shaken hands loads.

 

[Ed Costello]

Slight variation, but the most interesting scenario that comes to mind is if a prominent republican becomes head of government in one of the Commonwealth realms (presumably without majority support for said republicanism in either the government or the country). Said head of government states ahead of time that, while they will gladly work with her Maj on matters of state, they won't shake hands with her as a matter of principle.

Now, Liz is almost certainly going to go along with this, for reasons outlined above, but the reaction of certain sections of the press would be interesting. The Daily Mail would probably be unable to resist throwing some highly-veiled shade HMQ's way.

 

[Catsmate]

As for the MP example wasn't there a Welsh MP who kept referring to the Queen as "Mrs Windsor"? Maybe have them end up at a reception.

I believe Gerry Adams went through a phase of doing that too.