AHC: Spanish-speaking majority Amazon

[Taunay]

With a POD of 1550, your challenge is to make the majority of the Amazon be located in the Spanish-speaking regions, you can do this any way you want (screw Brazil, Portugal, wank Spain, Gran Colombia etc.) as long as it's not unrealistic to the point it could be considered ASB.
You don't necessarily have to use all the countries in the tags, you could have Peru control the entirety of Amazon (If that could be somehow realistic) or another entirely new country controlling it, as long as it is Spanish-speaking.

 

[Taunay]

If it helps, I know some Amazonian history. The Amazon was highly contested by Portugal and Spain, even during the Iberian Union. However, Pedro Teixeira, under the orders of Francisco Cordovil Camacho (who was latter arrested due to this), conquered the territory and claimed a massive part of it to Portugal. Teixeira can be considered responsible for the Amazon being majority Lusophone, so if he doesn't exist, your TL could end up with a predominantly Hispanophone Amazon.

 

[Taunay]

Mods please shut down this thread, it's not going anywhere

 

[Nivek]

With a POD of 1550, your challenge is to make the majority of the Amazon be located in the Spanish-speaking regions, you can do this any way you want (screw Brazil, Portugal, wank Spain, Gran Colombia etc.) as long as it's not unrealistic to the point it could be considered ASB.
You don't necessarily have to use all the countries in the tags, you could have Peru control the entirety of Amazon (If that could be somehow realistic) or another entirely new country controlling it, as long as it is Spanish-speaking.

The only one could pull it would be a more successful Gran Colombia, especially taking advantage of a weak empire of brazil

 

[Taunay]

The only one could pull it would be a more successful Gran Colombia, especially taking advantage of a weak empire of brazil

Makes sense, it would have been a very powerful country

 

[Nivek]

Makes sense, it would have been a very powerful country

Plus GC almost participated with Argentina in a war against brazil but ended up in nothing, with enough butterflies that would be the first Step for your idea

 

[Taunay]

Plus GC almost participated with Argentina in a war against brazil but ended up in nothing, with enough butterflies that would be the first Step for your idea

True

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Spain and Portugal while under the union decide to colonize?

 

[Taunay]

Spain and Portugal while under the union decide to colonize?

Isn't that already what they did? Pedro Teixeira did that under the Iberian Union

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Isn't that already what they did? Pedro Teixeira did that under the Iberian Union

While they did do that it clearly wasn't so effective in regards to language

 

[Taunay]

While they did do that it clearly wasn't so effective in regards to language

Yeah, Pedro Teixeira doesn't exist and some Spanish dude does practically the same as him, but starting from Peru, that way a larger part of the Amazon is in Spanish hands

 

[John I of Brazil]

Two things I believe would help this pod:

1) the Spanish should own the mouth of the Amazon River. By controlling the mouth, you can control who enters and who leaves the region. One of the main reasons the portuguese managed to conquer most of the amazon basin was the fact they occupied the mouth first.

2) if the portuguese focused more on the south (river plate, mesopotamia, Uruguay....), they could end up ignoring the amazon.

 

[Taunay]

Two things I believe would help this pod:

1) the Spanish should own the mouth of the Amazon River. By controlling the mouth, you can control who enters and who leaves the region. One of the main reasons the portuguese managed to conquer most of the amazon basin was the fact they occupied the mouth first.

2) if the portuguese focused more on the south (river plate, mesopotamia, Uruguay....), they could end up ignoring the amazon.

What PODs do you think are the best for 1) and 2), separately?

 

[John I of Brazil]

What PODs do you think are the best for 1) and 2), separately?

For 1), change the Treaty of Tordesilhas itself. Depending on how you interpreted the treaty, the mouth of the Amazon river could be considered to be in Portuguese hands, so pushing the Tordesilhas line to the east could make the portuguese exploration there slightly less likely. Other important factor is the founding of Belém of Pará, a important portuguese (now brazilian) city in the this region.

The second one is a bit more difficult to define a specific pod, since the portuguese actually tried to expand in the platine basin many times since the 17th century (example: the Colônia do Sacramento, founded in 1680). Maybe if the portuguese came to the region earlier (the spanish began to colonize the river plate region one century before) and we're overall more successful at taking territory there from the spanish, but had to give them their less valuable northern territories as a compensation.

 

[Taunay]

For 1), change the Treaty of Tordesilhas itself. Depending on how you interpreted the treaty, the mouth of the Amazon river could be considered to be in Portuguese hands, so pushing the Tordesilhas line to the east could make the portuguese exploration there slightly less likely. Other important factor is the founding of Belém of Pará, a important portuguese (now brazilian) city in the this region.

The second one is a bit more difficult to define a specific pod, since the portuguese actually tried to expand in the platine basin many times since the 17th century (example: the Colônia do Sacramento, founded in 1680). Maybe if the portuguese came to the region earlier (the spanish began to colonize the river plate region one century before) and we're overall more successful at taking territory there from the spanish, but had to give them their less valuable northern territories as a compensation.

Thanks!