AHC: Screw the IJN and the IJA harder for ww2

From the Commonwealth POD impacting this.....

Operation Judgement with feckin bells on (Ark Royals air group joins in) ravages the Italian fleet in a single night sinking all of the battleships and heavy Cruisers

Malta is reinforced earlier with Spitfires prized from Fighter command in early 41 for both the Islands Defences and the DAF

Australian and NZ commanders delay their units being sent as part of W force to Greece until they get orders from their own governments

By the time this happens the op is scrubbed as the German plans become known and instead as the Germans invade Greece the merchant shipping that was to have shifted the W force elements instead rescue as much of the Greek army as possible to Crete and goes to great efforts to rearm them with equipment captured in Compass

Rommel much weaker (due to a stronger Malta providing greater interdiction of SLOCs) and the British forces much stronger relative to OTL results in the DAK and Italain forces obliged to sit on the defensive into 1941.

Op Mercury is a disaster - Crete holds.

With the situation in North Africa much better, the violent invasion of French Indochina in Mid 41 causes great concern to the Australian and New Zealand governments and they demand the return of their Infantry Divisions within a year but agree to use those forces to defend Malaya and the region.

The British 18th Division is sent to North Africa along with the 1st Armoured Division earlier than planned and the same ships then move the 6th and 9th AIDs to Malaya where they begin to train how to operate in the Malayan environments. (OTL around this time there was a large number of British Divisions in the UK this POD simply sees several of them move to North Africa Earlier)

7th AID is to follow in early 42 along with the NZ Division once further reinforcements arrive from the UK 'Garrison' (including a Canadian Division 'allowed' to serve in North Africa)

RAAF and RNZAF squadrons in North Africa/UK are also replaced with RAF units from the UK giving the Commonwealth air forces in Malaya 3 additional P40 Squadrons with the P40s in North Africa being replaced with Hurricanes - allowing the existing 'porcine' F2 equipped Squadrons to largely reequip with the better P40 fighters.

With them come better commanders and improved ways of doing things and the use of revetments and decoys (both Aircraft and fake airstrips) as well as dispersed aircraft improves the survivability of aircraft on the ground.

With the Australians now providing the majority of the forces Gen. Sir Thomas Blamey becomes the Senior commander.

Using the veteren 6th Division - Blamey decides that if it looks like the Japanese are going to invade Thailand then the Division will execute Operation Matador and immediately seize Pattani and Songkhla and form a defensive line along the Kra Isthumas reinforced by the 11th Indian Division and both formations begin training for this role including night moves and full sized manoeuvres making Blamey very unpopular with the locals.

As part of the 2AICs commitment to the defence of Malaya the 1st Australian Armoured Division sets up a training school on the peninsular and moves elements of the Division HQ and 1st Brigade there.

The lack of tanks is somewhat overcome by the delivery of 150 Mk2 and Mk3 Covenanter Cruiser Tanks and 70 odd MKIV light tanks.

This along with an assortment of other AFVs and armoured cars allows the 1st Australian armoured Brigade to be equipped with Cruisers as well as the 6th, 8th and 9th Cavalry regiments (from the 3 Australian Divisions) to re-equip with a mix of light tanks and armoured cars.

The armoured formations start to learn how to use their charges in the region with the Covenanter 'regiments' becoming very good at tank maintenance and everyone becoming proficient at pulling tanks out of the mud.

Rejected for combat use due to being overweight, not capable of matching the then German tanks of the day and having cooling issues (which had been largely overcome by late 41) the Covenanter was deemed perfect for training however and was expected to serve until better tanks could be provided.

To that end 300 Valentine tanks had been ordered from Canada (with the first units expected to arrive in early 42) with the Australian Government standing up their own 'Australian' Valentine Production at the New South Wales Railway company expected to start delivery of tanks in mid/late 42.

None of these would arrive before fighting started.

Blamey also convinces the powers that be to not squander forces in Hong Kong and along with C force elements of the HK Garrison which are reduced to a trip wire force are instead used to garrison the strategic locations of Ambon, Timor and Rabaul with each at Brigade strength allowing the 3rd Brigade of the 8th AID to reform on Malaya and used as a mobile reserve.

By Nov 41 this Gave Blamey:

3 Australian Infantry Divisions each with 3 Full brigades each with an Artillery Brigade and Armoured Cavalry Regiment plus an Armoured Brigade with 3 Armoured Regiments and a regiment of Motor Infantry

The 11th and 8th Indian Army Divisions gave him 5 more infantry Brigades although none of them could be considered fully equipped or trained to the same standard as the Australian forces.

As well as over 300 aircraft many of them P40s.

The 2nd MTB squadron as well as 2 Insect gunboats arrive from Hong Kong in Oct.

The 6 MTB's base themselves in Kota Bharu and the 2 Insects move to the West side of the Peninsular where they can patrol the coastline

On Timor, Ambon and Rabaul - composite forces of a Brigade sized regular force plus local forces secured those vital locations (some of the elements not arriving until after 7th Dec)

Percival released from his thankless task with the arrival of Blamey and significant reinforcements and one for which he had been promoted above his ability is instead allowed to concentrate on rooting out anti British elements in Malaya and Singapore with some success as well as building an intelligence network in the region which will prove to be very useful in the months ahead.

The Japanese surprised and dismayed by the influx of reinforcements increase the size of the forces to be used.

Initially this is by stripping forces from the planned invasion of the Philippines - namely the well trained 48th Division and 2 of 14th Armys 4 Anti tank Regiments as well as the 4th Tank regiment (one of 2 slated for the invasion) - and adding them to the follow on forces to be used in the Malaya campaign.

In an effort to overcome the reduction in forces the 65th Brigade intended to act as a garrison force on the Philippines is subtly reinforced and instead given an assault role for which it has had little training and initially at least lacked much of the equipment necessary.

Ultimately this all leads to both campaigns bogging down into 42 and the Commonwealth and USA able to gradually reinforce their forces and ultimately defeat the IJA in 1942

This leaves the Burma Road open for business allowing for far greater movement of equipment to the NRA forces making things harder for the Japanese in China.
 

McPherson

Banned
Frankly replacing the entire Eastern Command leadership, civil and military would alleviate and accelerate a lot of that. (^^^).
 
Some of Unit 731's work gets accidentally spread to Japan (either via infected personnel, or munitions that accidentally get routed to the Home Islands and leak).
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Was this actually an option for the British and the Dutch?
Yes. The Dutch actually bought 24 Curtiss 75s for the DEI. Unfortunately they also bought 129 Buffaloes,. Brewster had "production delays" (shocking, I know) and only delivered 71 before the Balloon went up.

The RAF inherited 200+ 75s when France fell (same thing happened to 100 Curtiss 81, they wound in as Tomahawk II in the Western Desert), some wound up in Burma, but most went to the South Africans .

The Curtiss 75/P-36 was, unquestionably obsolescent in 1941, especially in the ETO. It lacked armor/self-sealing tanks so they were closer to Japanese designs than the more robust later U.S. production, and was only armed with (U.S. versions) one .30 cal and one .50 cal machine gun in the cowl and either four or six .30 cal in the wings (Dutch versions carried one .50 and either three .303/7.7mm , one in the cowling and two in the wings or four .303/7.7mm in the wings, French version had either four or six 7.5mm guns). That wasn't a terrible punch, but compared to the U.S. wartime standard of four or six .50s or the RAF's 4x20mm it isn't anything to write home about.

What they could do, however, was fly. They could actually outclimb a Zero and the RAF test pilots who evaluated the type stated it was more maneuverable than the Spitfire variant then in service. It was Seven League Boots compared to even the export version of the F2A.
 
No WNT, IJN is simply out built so much in 20s that they can't realistically play, not actually bad for Japan as a whole but makes IJN very weak.....?

It will be bad for Japan when they collapse the national economy trying to keep up with the USN.
 
It will be bad for Japan when they collapse the national economy trying to keep up with the USN.
Yes but long term I think you have at least 50% that they are better off by the military being discredited in 20s and then sitting out WWII just selling to US/GB as they have accepted they can't fight them?
 

marathag

Banned
Have MacArthur in the U.S. (with a VD). Let it leak to the media.
In 1937, so someone else has time to sort things out.

Plans were for conscription from 21 to 50! all to have a 400,000 man reserve force by 1946 planned date for independence, and a couple active service divisions
By time the War started, there were over 100,000 reservists, who barely had any training, and not enough gear to equip all of the regular army, let alone the reservists.
 
In 1937, so someone else has time to sort things out.

Plans were for conscription from 21 to 50! all to have a 400,000 man reserve force by 1946 planned date for independence, and a couple active service divisions
By time the War started, there were over 100,000 reservists, who barely had any training, and not enough gear to equip all of the regular army, let alone the reservists.

I understand that the Philippine army were largely equipped with surplus M1917 Enfields - that unfortunately had not been serviced properly and there was problems with among other things the internal magazine springs resulting in them not being that reliable.

You would have thought that things like that would be easy to resolve?
 

McPherson

Banned
In 1937, so someone else has time to sort things out.

Plans were for conscription from 21 to 50! all to have a 400,000 man reserve force by 1946 planned date for independence, and a couple active service divisions

By time the War started, there were over 100,000 reservists, who barely had any training, and not enough gear to equip all of the regular army, let alone the reservists.

You know; the Americans had an even bigger problem at the time, that they were trying to fix...
I understand that the Philippine army were largely equipped with surplus M1917 Enfields - that unfortunately had not been serviced properly and there was problems with among other things the internal magazine springs resulting in them not being that reliable.

You would have thought that things like that would be easy to resolve?

... their own army.
 
The list is endless.

Average performance from U.S. torpedoes.

Fortify Guam in 1940

Have a SCR-270 at Wake

Have the SCR-270 at Pearl actually utilized.

Give (in order) Short, Kimmel, Percival a clue.

Have MacArthur in the U.S. (with a VD). Let it leak to the media.

British & Dutch buy Curtis 75/P-36/P-40 instead of the F2A.

Just these few thing will put an absolute twist in the Japanese "Lunge South".

Tbh this gives me the impression that the Empire of Japan didn't went so far due strategy, but because the US screwed itself up.
 
Yes. The Dutch actually bought 24 Curtiss 75s for the DEI. Unfortunately they also bought 129 Buffaloes,. Brewster had "production delays" (shocking, I know) and only delivered 71 before the Balloon went up.

The RAF inherited 200+ 75s when France fell (same thing happened to 100 Curtiss 81, they wound in as Tomahawk II in the Western Desert), some wound up in Burma, but most went to the South Africans .

The Curtiss 75/P-36 was, unquestionably obsolescent in 1941, especially in the ETO. It lacked armor/self-sealing tanks so they were closer to Japanese designs than the more robust later U.S. production, and was only armed with (U.S. versions) one .30 cal and one .50 cal machine gun in the cowl and either four or six .30 cal in the wings (Dutch versions carried one .50 and either three .303/7.7mm , one in the cowling and two in the wings or four .303/7.7mm in the wings, French version had either four or six 7.5mm guns). That wasn't a terrible punch, but compared to the U.S. wartime standard of four or six .50s or the RAF's 4x20mm it isn't anything to write home about.

What they could do, however, was fly. They could actually outclimb a Zero and the RAF test pilots who evaluated the type stated it was more maneuverable than the Spitfire variant then in service. It was Seven League Boots compared to even the export version of the F2A.

I do think that the Dutch experience with the F2A was not as terrible as the American and British one, though that might be because there was not much the Dutch could compare it to. Thing is that I'm not sure if the KNIL-ML (Royal Netherlands Indies Army Air Force) really had a choice. The Netherlands Purchasing Commission had to stand at the back of the line, hoping to get some scraps. Even orders that were already confirmed could be set up for months if not longer.
 

marathag

Banned
This 400,000 man reserve army plan and actual 100,000 should be in context as that 100k was the size of the US Armed forces before the Spanish American War, when the US had 75 million people and the Philippines had 7 million, and was dirt poor, unlike the USA

Drafting guys up to 50 was pure idiocy.

Yes, you might need a half million men to try and defend Luzon, let alone all the other islands, but unless Uncle Sugar was paying(and he wasn't) there is no way to equip an army that size with a GDP per capita of 5% of the USA.
 
Since other people have already said "literally anything to improve US performance"...

--Yamashita and/or Yamamoto are assassinated by extremist junior officers for something like "not being rabidly racist and expansionist enough".
--Cho Isamu gets any form of promotion beyond what he got OTL.
--Mutaguchi Renya gets promoted any further than OTL.

basically, anything that results in the few competent people being edged out and/or the most rabid ultranationalist scumbags failing upwards.
 
Since other people have already said "literally anything to improve US performance"...

--Yamashita and/or Yamamoto are assassinated by extremist junior officers for something like "not being rabidly racist and expansionist enough".
--Cho Isamu gets any form of promotion beyond what he got OTL.
--Mutaguchi Renya gets promoted any further than OTL.

basically, anything that results in the few competent people being edged out and/or the most rabid ultranationalist scumbags failing upwards.

Hey, just to continue the Japan screws, let me suggest one thing:

The 2-26 coup works, and the Kodoha takes over Japan.

To repeat what a friend of mine told me about them:

"As bad as the OTL Toseiha were, the Kodoha were woke to the next level degree. The Iron Guard wanted to abolish all modern comforts and amenities as degenerate save for what was necessary to build a modern army. Otherwise they'd literally drag Romania back to the middle ages in living standards. Same for the Kodoha, like cringeworthy Crusader LARPers or people who desperately want to lick the boots of some hereditary landlord for the medieval aesthetic."

I gonna ask him for more info this night, but if he is right, the Kodoha (like the integralists in Brazil) seem to be the kind of people who wanted to force their country back into the 17th century. Imagine the kind of damage they could do?
 
Hey, just to continue the Japan screws, let me suggest one thing:

The 2-26 coup works, and the Kodoha takes over Japan.

To repeat what a friend of mine told me about them:

"As bad as the OTL Toseiha were, the Kodoha were woke to the next level degree. The Iron Guard wanted to abolish all modern comforts and amenities as degenerate save for what was necessary to build a modern army. Otherwise they'd literally drag Romania back to the middle ages in living standards. Same for the Kodoha, like cringeworthy Crusader LARPers or people who desperately want to lick the boots of some hereditary landlord for the medieval aesthetic."

I gonna ask him for more info this night, but if he is right, the Kodoha (like the integralists in Brazil) seem to be the kind of people who wanted to force their country back into the 17th century. Imagine the kind of damage they could do?
Holy crap now this is by far the best self screw japan did in this thread. Congrats on screwing them to the level i've never seen before.

Edit: now this is what i called the pol pot level of nation management
 
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