AHC: Screw the IJN and the IJA harder for ww2

[Eagle fox]

Well i already created a similiar thread in which we screwed the kriegsmarine but im interested to see how can we make the Japanese empire as weak as possible for ww2 like wasting resources on useless stuff and weapons or even worse strategist and commander. So have fun screwing them.

POD: around the 20s and 30s

 

[Eagle fox]

Oh yea interfering with the london naval treaty and Washington naval treaty is allowed
Edit: typo

 

[Spencersj345.346]

Have the Lexington and the oiler Neosho survive Coral Sea and the IJN's subs not torpedo Yorktown,Wasp, and Saratoga and for that matter the oiler Neches.

 

[Eagle fox]

Any more ideas?

 

[Derek Jackson]

What if Pearl Harbor had been guessed at by the USA

 

[McPherson]

Just send Stark and Leahy to the Aleutians with Turner as their errand boy and let the General Board and the NWC have their way from 1933 on.

To make it really bad for the Japanese, let the Americans break their Maru code without the San Francisco Incident and keep O'Richardson as CINCPAC as well have the post of SUBPAC created with his part of PLAN ORANGE changed to commerce warfare from W-1.

Also fire MacArthur and do about everything I mentioned in Those Marvelous Tin Fish.

 

[Sam R.]

China.

 

[Eagle fox]

China.

Yea the 2nd sino japanese war is a huge waste by the japanese empire. But i want too see how can the japanese messed up more in the 2nd sino japanese war and ww2

 

[McPherson]

China.

Yeah, but hasn't China been so screwed over by the warlordism, factional civil war, KMT politics and foreign colonialist imperialist meddling (And I do not just mean the Japanese) that any attempt in that quarter is a lost cause?

 

[Eagle fox]

Yeah, but hasn't China been so screwed over by the warlordism, factional civil war, KMT politics and foreign colonialist imperialist meddling (And I do not just mean the Japanese) that any attempt in that quarter is a lost cause?

Well i have an idea combining calbear's pacific redux tl,whale has wings, and hendryk's 1912 china superpower timeline to screw the japanese left and right. And also combining japan doing more mistake like focusing on destroyer instead of submarine and carrier development and also even worst general making them really screwed in ww2

 

[Alanith]

Have the Mk 14 work as advertised from its conception.

 

[Triune Kingdom]

One can only imagine what effect would substantial numbers of equipment and vehicles that the British have sent to the USSR IOTL could have, if they ended up in SEA. Couple hundred Hurricane fighters and Valentine tanks could make a merry mess out of IJA invasion of Malaya. Add to that a competent commander in charge, and it just gets nastier.

As for the DEI, I have heard that they did think, or at least discussed, about having their Submarines be the main naval unit to defend the Indies, instead of CLs as IOTL. Considering some of their early successes, one can easily imagine what damage a couple more Dutch submarines could do to a Japanese Invasion forces.

 

[CalBear]

The list is endless.

Average performance from U.S. torpedoes.

Fortify Guam in 1940

Have a SCR-270 at Wake

Have the SCR-270 at Pearl actually utilized.

Give (in order) Short, Kimmel, Percival a clue.

Have MacArthur in the U.S. (with a VD). Let it leak to the media.

British & Dutch buy Curtis 75/P-36/P-40 instead of the F2A.

Just these few thing will put an absolute twist in the Japanese "Lunge South".

 

[Eagle fox]

The list is endless.

Average performance from U.S. torpedoes.

Fortify Guam in 1940

Have a SCR-270 at Wake

Have the SCR-270 at Pearl actually utilized.

Give (in order) Short, Kimmel, Percival a clue.

Have MacArthur in the U.S. (with a VD). Let it leak to the media.

British & Dutch buy Curtis 75/P-36/P-40 instead of the F2A.

Just these few thing will put an absolute twist in the Japanese "Lunge South".

Wow that would screw the japanese a lot. So i already see most of this was screwed by external threat like the USA, China, and UK now im interested to see how can we screw the japanese by their own internal problem like rivalries,equipment, etc.

So any ideas?

 

[CalBear]

Wow that would screw the japanese a lot. So i already see most of this was screwed by external threat like the USA, China, and UK now im interested to see how can we screw the japanese by their own internal problem like rivalries,equipment, etc.

So any ideas?

Easiest one is to have one of the IJA hothead Majors assassinate Yamamoto. As was, IOTL, the Navy General Staff promoted him to Combined Fleet commander so he was headquartered onboard the Yamato to lessen the chance of his untimely demise.

 

[McPherson]

Easiest one is to have one of the IJA hothead Majors assassinate Yamamoto. As was, IOTL, the Navy General Staff promoted him to Combined Fleet commander so he was headquartered onboard the Yamato to lessen the chance of his untimely demise.

Getting Yamamoto killed early actually improves the IJN's chances as it was his bright idea inside Japanese navy-army politics to do all the bat-manure insane lunges in all directions and fritter away the fleet in piecemeal operations that gave Nimitz his chance to attrite and decrease the IJN===> especially its First Air Fleet. Imagine trying to fight against the traditional Japanese "attrite and decrease" war-plan the IJN had (Battle in the Mandates) with the 1941 PACFLT, led by Kimmel, against a competent Japanese fleet led by an admiral like Toyoda?

To make the IJN mess a lot worse, have Genda die early instead of Yamamoto, and have the staff planning for Pearl Harbor done by Fuchida (He wanted to attack from the south.).

On the army side of things, have Terauchi actually command things, instead of being a mere royalist figurehead. He gummed up the works enough as is in Indonesia. Also a rubber tree falls on Yamashita and they bring in Homma to replace him during the Singapore campaign.

 

[Protagoras]

Since you specified screwing with the naval treaties is allowed, and others haven't taken up that possibility, have no naval treaties, Japan builds a bunch of ships in the early 20s they can't afford, and as a result they are in subsequent years able to afford little additional shipbuilding or even upgrades. By the late 30s they have more battleships and battle cruisers than OTL, but overall what is now a somewhat obsolete and poorly maintained fleet.

 

[jlckansas]

Have the IJA and the IJN actually go to war with one another, bonus points if it’s after December 7th. Full on troops shooting at one another, ships bombarding army bases, airplanes attacking.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

Kodoha beats out the Toseiha and implements its anti-zaibatsu scheme, nationalizing or otherwise breaking up Japan's large industrial conglomerates. And they do an awful job at it, causing massive capital flight and a substantial decline in both the quantity and quality of Japanese manufacturing.

They also let their out of control hatred of the USSR drive them into a war against the Soviets at an inopportune moment.

 

[Draconis]

Darn. I've arrived late to this thread and it looks like all the good ideas have already been stated.

One idea is what if the Japanese had suffered through a protracted civil war between the two major factions in the late 1930s ? If the army militarists had been defeated who might have taken control of the government in 1939-1940? And what different decisions would they've made regarding the war in China and possibly still trying to grab all or some of the Southern Resource Area?

Also, my take on how to slow the Japanese down in a more OTL Pacific War. Get sufficient numbers of working torpedoes into the USN's submarines before 1942. And train the sub captains to be prioritize freighters and troops ships over warships. Especially for the invasion fleets.