With POD 1521, your challenge is to have the Philippines as multiracial as Mexico or Peru by today and have Spanish language be spoken by 90% of Philippine population by 2000. The racial composition should be 40% mestizo with the half of 40% are Spanish mestizos and another half are Chinese mestizos, 30% pure Austronesian with 3/4 Christian indios while 1/4 Muslim indios or moros, 10% are pure Spaniards or creoles, 10% are pure Chinese or sangleys, and another 10% are whether Indians, Japanese, or other Europeans.
AHC: Multiracial Spanish-speaking Philippines
- Thread starter Joseph Solis in Australia
- Start date
Have both Luzon and Mindanao both resist against the Spanish in that way the parts of the two islands that go to the Spanish get decimated and open to resettlement the population of the occupied parts go to the unoccupied parts, there will be pagans and Muslims in Luzon and Mindanao but they are independent or autonomous.
Luzon could be Javacized as well, both the Javacisation and Hispanicization is what I am working in my TL.
The Phillipines was never settled as heavily as the the latin american colonies due to the sheer distance from Spain. I can't see a way to match the numbers of spanish settlers (thus creating a large creole and mestizo class) unless there is some advancement in shipping transport.
Well there's actually Chinese men from Fujian that could intermarry with the native Filipinas.
I am thinking with earlier opening of Suez Canal or a Spanish colony in Madagascar could work to have the Philippines more attractive to Spanish immigrants. I am also thinking of having the Madrid directly administering the Philippines from the start instead from Mexico City in OTL.
To be honest, I thought the Philippines was more multiracial than Latin America, what with the East Asian and Austronesian admixture we have here combined with the Spanish, Native American, and African mix that was already in Latin America.
But Spanish-speaking, that is easier to fix. It's only by the Americans that we got English and our aboriginal languages. Left to its own devices, our country would have spoken Spanish as the main language.
But Spanish-speaking, that is easier to fix. It's only by the Americans that we got English and our aboriginal languages. Left to its own devices, our country would have spoken Spanish as the main language.
mestizos definition is mixed ancestry. It doesn't define how far your ancestry should be nor what percentage should be European not unlike Castizo. Jose rival for example had, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Malay ethnicity. Diffrence mainly how large/small percentage each ethnicity is. He is technically qualified as spanish mestizo. But self indentified himself as Filipino/Indio.
A Spanish could have intermarried in the 1560s but his descendants intermarried locals and Chinese until 1898 without mixing with other Spanish or criollo. The problem with this the Spanish didn't keep records of all inter marriages with Spanish since 1560s.
That means in otl all Filipinos could Be Spanish mestizos but not insulares/criollo, nor castizo.
With non Spanish mestizo, this could be easier than Spanish mestizo. Philippines otl has an estimate/rough estimate of 30%+ Chinese mestizo. Now whether or not that Chinese mestizo is also Spanish mestizo is hard to tell.
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Filipinos with pure Chinese ancestry are only 1 million while with pure Spanish ancestry only 10,000 as of today. Latin America constantly receives immigrants from Europe and Africa while the Philippines, only the Chinese coming in large numbers. The challenge to everyone is to have 10 million Filipinos with pure Chinese ancestry and another 10 million with pure Spanish ancestry by today. In other words, the challenge is assimilation of Chinese and Spanish to Insulares-Mestizo culture like in Latin America instead of Indio culture in OTL.
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Spain should use an alternative to the galleon trade between Manila and Acapulco and sail across Africa instead, thus enticing people to go there. It could take 3 months to get from Spain to the Philippines. The Philippines would be like Peru or Bolivia with 45-55% Austronesian. You would have to attract so many people to have the level of mestizos and pure Sangleys and Spaniards to be the size of Mexico which it would be impossible.
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A larger ethinicty for Spanish and Chinese means less mestizos. This could also mean that Spanish colonial policy is different from otl to the point that you intermarriages are discouraged. In short the Spanish are more into to racial purity and racial segragation in ATL. I am also thinking of a population depleted Philippines since prehistory wherein there are no Malays only Aetas which would have the same result as Australia. But that pod would require to stop Malay migration in Philippines.
With regards to mestizo culture, it is mostly self identification since ethnicity Filipinos already qualify as mestizo. This means a pod between 1820-1870 wherein leaders of rebellion indentified themselves as criollo or mestizo compared to leaders in 1890s who are mestizos but self identified themselves as Indio.
It seems that the Filipino members here are too much interested in a Spanish wank in the country when Luzon and Mindanao received the worst treatment from the Spanish.
Well, the Spanish were the ones who formed the idea of the Philippines, and it was mostly people in Luzon who fought to make that idea a reality, from Novales and Varela to Bonfacio and Rizal.
Mindanao definitely suffers from being close to the Malays, though.
The people of Luzon want a revival of the kingdom of tondo not the Philippines the Bonifacio state was a successor of it.
You are trying to tell us all that three hundred years of Spanish and Catholic rule - three hundred years of war and trade and assimilation, three hundred years, when the United States rose from being a small bunch of English colonies to becoming the superpower of this world in half that time - mean nothing at all.
That somehow, the people of Luzon who were but small polities and clans want the revival of a single small polity, and that the revolution which was the culmination of the three hundred years of Catholicism and Spanish rule which basically welded this whole nation together, is just the successor state of that tiny polity that was Tondo.
...I'm not even sure how to respond to you. I really, really have no idea.
And so is Mexico and South America. But did that stop them from speaking Spanish?
This statements just sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Bonifacio's plan includes Mindanao and Visayas. Why do you think people from these places joined the Katipunan?
The difference is that Mexico and South America is that 90% of the population of the Indians were decimated which happened in the Americas and the Filipinos could have stalled the Spanish colonization in both Luzon and Mindanao but that did not happen due to the Bruneians sacking of Tondo.
Both the Kingdom of Tondo and Katipunan called their citizens as Tagalogs, Tondo is the capital of the state that the Malays call as Saludang, the representatives of the Filipinos in the Malay world are the Mindanaoans/Iranun.
Both Korea and Saludang never regained their former order after their conquerors, the Bruneians and Japanese destroyed them.
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So?
That doesn't justify the ridiculous claim that the nationalist movement wants only the independence of Luzon when the idea of a united Philippine archipelago is already solidified a few decades before them.
Yes, Bonifacio used the term Tagalog. But it was only an attempt to create a unique identity for a new nation. He's that idealistic.
Spanish colonists in Latin America.
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His ideological stance and preferences ALTHistorical are clear on this subject matter, which as I would not mind, to make their claims but I'm going to request that:
Do not use in his attack on this OP, socio-political situations that do not seem to know much beyond the common tropes among some of the people whose educational training was in the Anglo sphere and with little care to check their preconceived notions about so-called mass murder carried out by Spanish colonists in Latin America. : o
That there were crimes, forced servitude, and other facts associated with the subjugation of one people by another more technologically advanced ..is undeniable that never had but with the planning or magnitude to decimate or that could make an ethnocide
In indigenous populations, as it seems to be the common belief in some parts of the world and some people eager to believe it or unable to check their preconceptions .
To do so first should leave their comfort zone and not be taken as historical fact a cultural bias originated in the Black Legend about the Spanish colonization: Mexico and other countries of South America where there was a preexisting indigenous population to the Spanish colonization. ..hoy in day has survived and even much of it has not been fully assimilated. To the point that many emigrants in the USA, listed as Hispanics, are speakers of indigenous languages and many of them only take in the best little understanding of Spanish ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Ethnic_groups
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Peru
''...The second article of the Mexican Constitution, Mexico is defined as a "pluricultural" nation in recognition of the diverse ethnic groups that constitute it and where the indigenous peoples are the original foundation....''
''The number of indigenous Mexicans is judged using the political criteria found in the 2nd article of the Mexican constitution. The Mexican census does not report racial-ethnicity but only the cultural-ethnicity of indigenous communities that preserve their indigenous languages, traditions, beliefs and cultures...''
''...The category of "indigena" (indigenous) can be defined narrowly according to linguistic criteria including only persons that speak one of Mexico's 89 indigenous languages, this is the categorization used by the National Mexican Institute of Statistics. It can also be defined broadly to include all persons who self identify as having an indigenous cultural background, whether or not they speak the language of the indigenous group they identify with...''
:His ideological stance and preferences ALTHistorical are clear on this subject matter, which as I would not mind, to make their claims but I'm going to request that:
Do not use in his attack on this OP, socio-political situations that do not seem to know much beyond the common tropes among some of the people whose educational training was in the Anglo sphere and with little care to check their preconceived notions about so-called mass murder carried out by Spanish colonists in Latin America. : o
That there were crimes, forced servitude, and other facts associated with the subjugation of one people by another more technologically advanced ..is undeniable that never had but with the planning or magnitude to decimate or that could make an ethnocide
In indigenous populations, as it seems to be the common belief in some parts of the world and some people eager to believe it or unable to check their preconceptions .
To do so first should leave their comfort zone and not be taken as historical fact a cultural bias originated in the Black Legend about the Spanish colonization: Mexico and other countries of South America where there was a preexisting indigenous population to the Spanish colonization. ..hoy in day has survived and even much of it has not been fully assimilated. To the point that many emigrants in the USA, listed as Hispanics, are speakers of indigenous languages and many of them only take in the best little understanding of Spanish ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Mexico#Ethnic_groups
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_in_Peru
''...The second article of the Mexican Constitution, Mexico is defined as a "pluricultural" nation in recognition of the diverse ethnic groups that constitute it and where the indigenous peoples are the original foundation....''
''The number of indigenous Mexicans is judged using the political criteria found in the 2nd article of the Mexican constitution. The Mexican census does not report racial-ethnicity but only the cultural-ethnicity of indigenous communities that preserve their indigenous languages, traditions, beliefs and cultures...''
''...The category of "indigena" (indigenous) can be defined narrowly according to linguistic criteria including only persons that speak one of Mexico's 89 indigenous languages, this is the categorization used by the National Mexican Institute of Statistics. It can also be defined broadly to include all persons who self identify as having an indigenous cultural background, whether or not they speak the language of the indigenous group they identify with...''
Majority of the native americans that survived are in Latin America, some of the natives in Mexico don't even want to be a part of Mexico in the first place.
The decimation of Native Americans is due to smallpox not murders.
Bonifacio's Katagalugan is a successor of Saludang - Rizal does not want Philippines to be independent because the people of the Philippines don't know their history, Katagalugan is composed of all the Archipelago but institutionally and culturally it is based on Saludang/Kingdom of Tondo - so keeping Saludang independent or rebel before the Spanish is a better timeline for me since if Tondo survived before the spanish came the people of Luzon would not want to be a part of the Philippines like the Mindanaoans do.