AHC: More “White” Countries

[John Fredrick Parker]

Countries with at least 10 million people, over half of whom are white, found outside of Europe (or the former Russian Empire); OTL, this is basically the US, Canada, Australia, Cuba, Chile, and Argentina.* No PoDs before 1850.

*FTR, other “White” countries - Israel, New Zealand, Uruguay, Costa Rica - are too small for this challenge; making them bigger isn’t what we’re looking for here

 

[Thon Taddeo]

According to Wikipedia, in 2010, 47% of Brazilians identified as white. It would be pretty easy to get a percentage above 50.

 

[Sol Zagato]

1. Redefine white culturally. End thread.
2. Andronovo culture sinks the world into complete barbarism circa 2000-1000 BC. History re-emerges around 500 AD, with Chinese looking about as East Asian as Keanu Reeves.
3. Colonialism on steroids. In a fit of absence, Portugal settles the New England region and the South African Cape around 1480. Simultaneously, a surplus of 'pagan' Slavs become available through the Arab slave trading network, postponing the Atlantic slave trade and cycling large numbers of Rus and Volga Bulgars to sugar plantations in the Canaries. Exploding settler populations in these regions provide manpower for much further adventurism.

 

[Jared]

You forgot Chile, which is about two-thirds white (depending on definition) and which has considerably more than 10 million people.

 

[jocay]

There were suggestions throughout the 19th century for the British to seize Taiwan from the Qing. This obviously never came to pass but let's say in this scenario, the British go forward with the idea of conquering Formosa during the Second Opium War. It could be for any reason ranging from revenge on the petty Aboriginals who would attack shipwreck survivors to a desire to further punish the Chinese for not accepting British hegemony. Formosa's at this point already settled with 2 million+ Chinese, not to mention the Aboriginal tribes. The British authorities initially restrict immigration to proper Anglo-Saxon Protestants of wealth and distinction and this gives Formosa the reputation of an elite gentleman's club for the first few decades of British rule. Few bother with Formosa as there are more closer and hospitable areas to immigrate to like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. Over time, the colonial authorities reluctantly loosen immigration restrictions to anyone of European descent. Hundreds of thousands of southern and eastern Europeans make Taiwan their home and much to the disgust of the Anglo-Formosan political class, are not afraid of forming trysts and starting families with either the Chinese or the Aboriginal population. Generations pass by and Formosa is by TTL 2018 a Eurasian nation of Euro-Chinese-Austronesian cultural roots. Many of whom liken Formosa as a European cultural enclave in Asia while others take a different approach in terms of identity.

 

[Citycat]

South Region of Brazil becomes an independent sovereign state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Region,_Brazil

Kazakhstan at one point had a Russian majority population, if it could maintain this after independence, it would meet the OP's criteria.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

@Sol Zagato - No PoDs before 1850

Kazakhstan at one point had a Russian majority population, if it could maintain this after independence, it would meet the OP's criteria.

"(or the former Russian Empire)"

You forgot Chile, which is about two-thirds white (depending on definition) and which has considerably more than 10 million people.

Fixed.

 

[JamesBond88]

Independent Texas, a Mexico that brings in more Europeans, a South Africa that reaches a White majority either through more early Dutch/German settlers or later general European immigration, maybe a fascist UK that eventually breaks up in India into smaller pieces and has one as a settler state. Libya would be a colony of Italy, but could be majority Italian. If you take out that size requirement you could maybe create some settler states in the Caribbean islands in an ATL where the US engages in White imperialism.

 

[GTStinger]

Lybia with Neutral Italy in WW2.

Alternatively, Italy actively encourages white immigrantion to Ethiopia/Somalia. In the late 1960’s a separate white majority county is split off during decolonialization.

 

[Lenwe]

*FTR, other “White” countries - Israel, New Zealand, Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica - are too small for this challenge; making them bigger isn’t what we’re looking for here

Question, You want Land mass or population for your Countries?

Because there is also Cuba that is 65% White, and 11 million inhabitans, and if not for the cuban revolution could be more white (73% by The 1956 census ) and more populous ( at least 2 million more)

Venezuela Is really close as what you ask as 42% of the population consider themselves White and 45% consider themselves "brown" there, so you need only to change a little The population dinámics here with a stronger European Population

Irán could also be considered a White country, as come on literally these guys áre Aryan, this have more to do With a cultural perception change than a population dinámics change.

And I don't understand why you consider Chile too small With 18 million inhabitans and 756.000 km2 of territory (more territory than Benelux+Germany+Austria+Italy)

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

@Lenwe Changes made; thanks. I thought I had read that Cuba was less than 50% white, and initially thought the same about Chile before I was corrected.

 

[Thisisnotausername]

Various Latin American countries could fit the bill if you got more white immigration, and some of the existing white settler colonies could be broken up (ex. have the Confederacy win the Civil War, get Western Canada to secede somehow). If you have some sort of end to white rule in South Africa that sees the creation of separate black and white states through population transfers/ethnic cleansing and you have a lot more white immigration to/population growth in South Africa and/or its white successor state, you could possibly end up with a white-majority state of over ten million there. Italian Libya might be able to grow to ten million, but I'm not sure if it could really attract or support so many people, and there's also the problem that such a Libya would probably wish to stay part of Italy rather than becoming independent. Beyond that, your main option is to have the Europeans be a lot more genocidal in South Africa and the African highlands, and more aggressive in promoting white settlement in the lands thus emptied. You could also change cultural perceptions so that, say, Arabs or Iranians are considered white, but this is sort of cheating.

 

[FillyofDelphi]

One... unpleasant possibility could be an extremely harsh and painfully protracted campaign in Japan during WW 2. Sufficent starvation from the blockade, fanatical resistance by the locals and a resulting wave of crackdowns on military aged males (particularly if the Soviets get their hands on a large enough area), and the establishment of long lasting, large American and Soviet military presences could result in a substantial portion of "Baby Boomers" in Japan being half-white and identifying with their European parent's culture due to bias/shame and active repression towards Japanese culture. The effect could compound in the next generation, to the point that the islands are majority "white" (if we go by a substantial amount of Euro genetics plus self identification) by the turn of the millenium.

 

[Neoteros]

1. Redefine white culturally. End thread.

It would be fairly easy to expand the definition of "white" to include all Indo-European peoples, actually. Kurds and Persians look just as "white" as the inhabitants of southern Europe after all, and a more secular Middle East throughout the 20th century could've done the trick. As for the inhabitants of northern India, Gandhi did have some pan-Indo-European tendencies, too... Christian Arabs could've easily joined the "white" club as well, with a solidly Christian (and heterodoxically Muslim) Lebanon becoming kind of an eastern Malta.

 

[Tripledot]

One... unpleasant possibility could be an extremely harsh and painfully protracted campaign in Japan during WW 2. Sufficent starvation from the blockade, fanatical resistance by the locals and a resulting wave of crackdowns on military aged males (particularly if the Soviets get their hands on a large enough area), and the establishment of long lasting, large American and Soviet military presences could result in a substantial portion of "Baby Boomers" in Japan being half-white and identifying with their European parent's culture due to bias/shame and active repression towards Japanese culture. The effect could compound in the next generation, to the point that the islands are majority "white" (if we go by a substantial amount of Euro genetics plus self identification) by the turn of the millenium.

I have a hard time believing a war in Japan would lead to tens of millions of people dying and American GIs/Soviet troops fathering a further tens of millions of children.

 

[Byzantine fanatic]

3. Colonialism on steroids. In a fit of absence, Portugal settles the New England region and the South African Cape around 1480. Simultaneously, a surplus of 'pagan' Slavs become available through the Arab slave trading network, postponing the Atlantic slave trade and cycling large numbers of Rus and Volga Bulgars to sugar plantations in the Canaries. Exploding settler populations in these regions provide manpower for much further adventurism.

This is a cool post. I liked it.

One problem with using Slavs to populate the plantations though is the presence of a certain insect: the mosquito. Aedes Aegypti is a type of mosquito found in the plantations regions of the Americas which spreads deadly yellow fever, while the Anopheles mosquito is also found here and spreads malaria.

Why were African slaves brought to colonize the south, rather than free white servants? The answer is that black people have a much better survival rate after being bitten by Aedes Aegypti and the Anopheles mosquito. In Charles C Mann's excellent book 1493 he goes into experiments that prove the difference.

In other words, it was more economically viable to ship Africans in than whites, because the whites kept dying from malaria and yellow fever at too high a rate to be profitable.

 

[Gloss]

This is a cool post. I liked it.

One problem with using Slavs to populate the plantations though is the presence of a certain insect: the mosquito. Aedes Aegypti is a type of mosquito found in the plantations regions of the Americas which spreads deadly yellow fever, while the Anopheles mosquito is also found here and spreads malaria.

Why were African slaves brought to colonize the south, rather than free white servants? The answer is that black people have a much better survival rate after being bitten by Aedes Aegypti and the Anopheles mosquito. In Charles C Mann's excellent book 1493 he goes into experiments that prove the difference.

In other words, it was more economically viable to ship Africans in than whites, because the whites kept dying from malaria and yellow fever at too high a rate to be profitable.

I thought that malaria and other diseases were brought with the African slaves, so if they are not there there would be less diseases of that type.

 

[kasumigenx]

I have a hard time believing a war in Japan would lead to tens of millions of people dying and American GIs/Soviet troops fathering a further tens of millions of children.

Many of the Japanese are antiwar that is why Japan will naturally get into a revolt if the war goes longer.

 

[Augustine Sedira]

I'll think of some possibilities for more white countries.

• Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Libya (4): The Berber natives are already pretty white yet they see themselves as Arabs due to the cultural power of Islam as well as oppression of Berber culture by the governments since independence was gained from the French and Italians. To make them even more white, we don't have the Pied-Noirs expelled and instead of having a government oppressing the Berbers, they actually promote Berber colonialism and in fact look towards Europe rather than Islam as what they want their nations to look like. By 2018, we have four stronger nations which are seen as an extension of Europe in Africa. Btw, to get Libya over 10 million in population, increase the Italian settlement in the region a bit.
• Cape Verde (5): Increased European settlement of Cape Verde and no intermixing with the black slaves. Have a policy of whites having as much children as possible and maybe by 2018 you could squeeze in just over 10 million inhabitants.
• Eritrea (7): After Ethiopia is conquered, Italy settles more men in the region and eventually it becomes independent and the white run government. To increase their political influence, they manage to bring in southern European immigrants due to economic issues in the region (I don't know how far back this goes). Maybe government grants manage to convince people in the 20th century to come to settle in Eritrea to the point where by 2018 it reaches a population of over 10 million.
• South Africa (8): The white government used to recognize independent black states and in OTL others in the world recognize them. Black populations in South Africa move to these independent black states and we are left with a white South Africa.
• Kenya (9): Kenya sees British settlement before World War I to increase pressure on German Tanzania. By 2018, we have a white majority state who maybe create an independent black state in the west as South Africa did.
• Lebanon and Jerusalem (10): Lebanon sees further French settlement and due to the nation being in the European cultural sphere rather than the Arab sphere, they regard themselves as white. With Palestine, we have many holy Christians settling the region since it is where Jesus came from. When the British leave, they create a Christian state and a Muslim state. The Christian one will get lots of hatred in the region for controlling Jerusalem but that is a story for another time.
• Turkey, Iran and Kurdistan (13): Turkey never sees the rise in Islamic influence after their attempts at Westernizations and due to this, they become seen as an extension of Europe and white the same way Hungarians and Finnish are. Iran never has the revolutions which result in Iran becoming more western aligned and is seen as white.
• Kazakhstan (14): There is intense Russian settlement in the region by the Soviet Union due to fears of the Muslim population having too much influence. When the Soviet Union collapses, the Kazakhstan SSR gains independence with a Russian majority.
• Taiwan, Singapore, the Philippines and Guinea (18): Taiwan is seized by a European power who colonize the region turning it white. The British settle Brits in Singapore turning it white whilst the Spanish settle more Spaniards in the Philippines. Will all these nations, it is likely that it will be under 60% of the population who are white. The Dutch manage to maintain a hold over the west of New Guinea due to some deals with the Indonesians or something. Thus Dutch in the region settle in the region and economic opportunities cause many Europeans and Australians to settle in the region.
• Yucatan, Rio Grande, Sonora, California, Oregon, Texas, Louisiana, New England, Quebec, and the Deep South (28): American filibusters create a white state in Rio Grande and Sonora. Yucatan is seized by the Americans during the Mexican-American War and white immigration to the region takes place. California is created as an American puppet or client state following the Mexican-American War due to the distance but the Americans manage to seize the Jefferson coast. Oregon is created as an independent state by the British and Americans to avoid conflict between the two. Texas manages to maintain independence or possibly regains it following being admitted into the Union, don't know how but weirder things have happened in history. Louisiana becomes an independent state though it is unlikely. New England declares independence during the War of 1812 and becomes a puppet of the British. Quebec gains independence from Canada and the Deep South breaks off from the Union and successfully hold them off establish an independent state (not necessarily the CSA).
• Venezuela, Colombia, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Cuba, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Patagonia and Uruguay (51): Population growth is different and some stuff happens causing all these nations to not only have over 10 million people but also have over 50% be white. Patagonia successfully is created (can't remember who attempted it).
• Egypt, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, Jordan, Azerbaijan, UAE, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Islamic Palestine, Oman and Kuwait (67): All these nations are recognized as being white and the ones with less than 10 million inhabitants successfully manage to have a population of over 10 million. This is cheating but eh, might as well add it.

So through this we have added 51/67 new white countries.

 

[Sol Zagato]

This is a cool post. I liked it.

One problem with using Slavs to populate the plantations though is the presence of a certain insect: the mosquito. Aedes Aegypti is a type of mosquito found in the plantations regions of the Americas which spreads deadly yellow fever, while the Anopheles mosquito is also found here and spreads malaria.

Why were African slaves brought to colonize the south, rather than free white servants? The answer is that black people have a much better survival rate after being bitten by Aedes Aegypti and the Anopheles mosquito. In Charles C Mann's excellent book 1493 he goes into experiments that prove the difference.

In other words, it was more economically viable to ship Africans in than whites, because the whites kept dying from malaria and yellow fever at too high a rate to be profitable.

I thought that malaria and other diseases were brought with the African slaves, so if they are not there there would be less diseases of that type.

To my knowledge, Gloss is correct here.

Europeans occasionally got malaria in southern Europe, but not like Africans did in Africa. IIRC they also had less terrrible varieties.

Confine the OTL Portuguese experiments with African plantation slavery to Biko island (and the like) for awhile longer, you may have Carribean islands (and the Canaries and the Cape Verde islands) where the nasty tropical diseases never get established, populated by Slavo-Dutch Portuguese.

Also, I have an intuition they might not work them to death as much.

Mainland Brazil will still turn out heavily African. All it takes is one carrier, and then the Amazonian civilization is wiped out and you need African slaves for your farms.