AHC: Make Andorra have its own hereditary monarchy (no co-princes)

TheWitheredStriker

TheWitheredStriker

The challenge is to make Andorra have its own monarchy that lasts (any PoD after its foundation in 805); it basically ends up a lot like OTL Monaco, being a tiny little statelet with its own monarchy, bordering but seperate from large countries, and probably being a tax paradise. There are no co-princes. Any means to make this happen?

Perhaps the Counts of Urgell hold on to the country? Or maybe the Counts of Foix don't acquire the Navarrese throne? (Which probably leads to Navarre being gobbled up by Aragon, unless something else happens to prevent this) The problem with both is that both the Counts of Urgell and those of Foix hold land besides Andorra itself, and I'm looking for a strictly Andorran monarchy (just like how the Grimaldis obtained Monaco and nothing else, and to this day still only hold Monaco), so I'm not entirely sure here.

The monarchy must preferably be hereditary. Bonus points if it lasts until the present day.
 

Analytical Engine

Just checking quickly through the wikipedia page on the Co-Princes:

en.wikipedia.org

Co-Princes of Andorra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

It looks like the co-prince system started in 1095, but formalised in 1278.

There are a few ways I can see:

1) the Count of Urgell doesn't do a land swap with the Bishop. No co-prince system ever gets set up

2) the Bishop still gets control over Andorra, but no co-prince system gets set up anyway. Later on, the principality is secularised, with a hereditary dynasty installed

3) in a bout of anti-clericalism, the Bishop's temporal powers are revoked (either by an invading power*, or by Andorra itself). After everything settles down, Andorra is left with just one prince instead

4) somehow, inexplicably, Boris Skossyreff's plot is actually successful



*revolutionary or Napoleonic France sound like good candidates
 
Neal Caffrey

Neal Caffrey

As a crazy post 1900 idea perhaps in a world where Franco is facing a lot of internal instability his opposition offer to let him become prince of Andorra with a bit more territory and France agrees mainly as a way to avoid bloodshed and Franco agrees as a way to save himself and his family.
 
Jonathan

Jonathan

Analytical Engine said:
1) the Count of Urgell doesn't do a land swap with the Bishop. No co-prince system ever gets set up
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This would seem to be the best P.O.D.
If we have a third son born in 975-980 to Borrell II, Count of Urgell, whom gives the Andorran valleys to that son rather than the Diocese of Urgell.
If this young count marries into the French nobility such as Agnes of Burgundy, there would still be a strong buffer state between Muslim Iberia and Kingdom of Franks.
 

Lalli

Perhaps at some point in 16th or 17th century both king of France and bishop of Ugell are in deep money troubles and decide sell their rights to someone rich count who becomes prince of Andorra. This is about way how Principality of Liechtenstein was born.
 
Aguss

Aguss

Lalli said:
This is about way how Principality of Liechtenstein was born.
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I agree, the sale of land was common. Dauphiné was practically sold to France for about 550 thousand guilders.

If families like the Savoy (Counts / Dukes of Savoy) or Anjou (Kings of Naples, Dukes of Provence and Dukes of Forcalquier) had bought Dauphiné, the size of Italy could have been bigger.

Or also, if Dauphine had been bought by some nobleman it could have been independent today.
 

jb3

Tyler96 said:
Does Republican France have any reason to allow this?
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Have it be part of one of the Napoleonic peace agreements (as an indemnity to the Bourbons for losing Parma or Spain?) or the Congress of Vienna? Give Andorra as a life fief to Marie-Therese, daughter of Louis XVI, who could not inherit France due to Salic Law but could in Andorra in the same way Parma was given to Marie-Louise for life, instead of its Bourbon Dukes. And then when Charles X is deposed they retreat to Andorra instead of Austria. Andorra is not historically a part of France, neither Louis-Phillipe or the 2nd Republic could just annex it without war with Spain or other powers. When Marie-Therese dies, Andorra then votes to have her niece, the Duchess of Parma (Louis d'Berry) the heir (older than her brother) and then one of her daughters (in this TL, Margherita does not marry the Duke of Madrid, so as not to get involved in Spanish politics and risking invasion). As long as its not the Henri of Chambord, how can France complain?
 
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

Wendell said:
Have a Bonaparte get it.
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Which one though? I don't think any of the brothers would've been interested in it, and any of the sisters would've probably just hocked it to someone else for cash :p
Still though, Nap did end Andorra's sovereignty, and incorporate it into the Empire, briefly... it wouldn't have been out-of-character at all for him to distribute it to some Marshal, Senator, or relative, as he did that occasionally with a few out-of-the-way scraps of land all across Europe...
 

Wendell

Aghasverov said:
Which one though? I don't think any of the brothers would've been interested in it, and any of the sisters would've probably just hocked it to someone else for cash :p
Still though, Nap did end Andorra's sovereignty, and incorporate it into the Empire, briefly... it wouldn't have been out-of-character at all for him to distribute it to some Marshal, Senator, or relative, as he did that occasionally with a few out-of-the-way scraps of land all across Europe...
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Napoleon dies as a result of injuries suffered at Regensburg. Cambaceres convinces the Senate to dissolve the Empire and restore the Republic. However, other titles held by the would-be French emperor are unaffected, and in the deal Joseph makes with the opposition Junta in Spain, Andorra gets secularized and the Bishop of Urgell loses his largely symbolic secular rights and titles in Andorra leaving Joseph, as heir to Napoleon, Prince of Andorra.
 
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

Wendell said:
Napoleon dies as a result of injuries suffered at Regensburg. Cambaceres convinces the Senate to dissolve the Empire and restore the Republic. However, other titles held by the would-be French emperor are unaffected, and in the deal Joseph makes with the opposition Junta in Spain, Andorra gets secularized and the Bishop of Urgell loses his largely symbolic secular rights and titles in Andorra leaving Joseph, as heir to Napoleon, Prince of Andorra.
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In other words, Joseph may not exactly want to have title in Andorra, but winds up with it by default....
I like it :)
I wonder if Joseph would ever set foot in his erstwhile Principality... I don't think Berthier ever visited Neuchatel, or Talleyrand Benevento, or Bernadotte Pontecorvo.....
How many people lived in Andorra at that time anyway? Maybe 5,000 - 6,000? Great place to get away from it all :D
 

Wendell

Aghasverov said:
In other words, Joseph may not exactly want to have title in Andorra, but winds up with it by default....
I like it :)
I wonder if Joseph would ever set foot in his erstwhile Principality... I don't think Berthier ever visited Neuchatel, or Talleyrand Benevento, or Bernadotte Pontecorvo.....
How many people lived in Andorra at that time anyway? Maybe 5,000 - 6,000? Great place to get away from it all :D
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The first prince(s) of an independent Liechtenstein never set foot in the country. On a related note, perhaps Napoleon instead of becoming emperor should've fenagled the title Prince of Andorra for himself to placate his republican allies while giving himself more legitimacy as a monarch.
 
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