this will require greater interference from other Islamic powers such as the Mamluks of Egypt, the Ottomans and the Moroccans. Which can in turn bring Portugal together for the war against Grenada. but the biggest problem is that portugal was already exploring the world, even with this war portugal had a view facing the sea. This could cause the mediterranean sea to become a battleground, possibly bringing the Italians, Germans and France into the war on the Spanish side, with perhaps Venice supporting the Muslims (causing the pope to excommunicate Venice, or rather its elite.)
AHC: Less Spanish colonization
- Thread starter Taunay
- Start date
have Portugal be in a union with Leon, Galicia, and Asturias, while they take like all of South America. Then, Portugal fights Spain, wins, and annexes all New World colonies. We have Spain with a colony in North Africa and the East Indies. This is super wank but it's funny
Wow that sounds like the makings of a very good TL!
Agreed, it's not realistic, but hey, this is alternate history after all
another super wank one, have Spain not even exist, so that technically counts as less Spanish colonies
Or, Castile loses the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa, so Portugal still exists whilst Castile is weaker
Uncolonized, but they would have trade factories in the Area of OTL Philippines.
Less Spanish would mean other European powers would move instead.
Diseases would still spread along trade routes within native areas where the Europeans had not yet arrived.
Less gold and silver arriving in Europe or being delayed might slow the inflation of the money supply in Europe.
A slower introduction of American food plants could also have an impact on the growth of population in Europe
and elsewhere.
I think the Incas would have become "Argentina" had they got the chance to adapt, with the technology available for them to not be overstretched
Sure buddy!
Welp, it's Aluma time!
I think the best way to get Spain to not go into the colonization business is to kill off Queen Isabella
But why kill my waifu?
Well for one Columbus came to her with his request and the impetus for going West and converting the natives was her's
Her husband meanwhile was focused on his ventures in Italy and Africa
In this scenario, should Spain still be unified by this point, Ferdinand would fully have had his way and Columbus would either have gone home or tried again with someone else
With the spare men Spain would have not being used to, you know, occupy the entirety of Latin America, they'd perhaps have enough to secure their claims in Europe
This means Italy is likely unified earlier under a Pro-Spain Pope and Spain successfully occupies Gibraltar and Morocco
Such Italy would fight with France for the dominance over the Holy Roman Empire, and considering IOTL France still didnt succeed at doing so I think this Italy might just be strong enough to get Germany under it's sphere of influence - meaning, a Catholic Germany ITTL
As for spanish Africa, logistics prevent Spain from projecting power anywhere south and the portuguese would keep buying goods and people from their allied kingdoms
However in the long term I could see the african states turning on them when Portugal starts trying to exercise a more "direct" control and doing raids for slaves, with these states requesting help from Spain and happily providing logistical support if the spanish could just kick these portuguese out
So expect a more abolitionist catholicism(at least rhetorically) catching on in Africa and Spain itself
As for Portugal, without a rival like Spain in the New World they'd control all of their desired areas of influence in America and without a Iberian Union to wreck their navy there wouldnt be anything stopping them from being the world's maritme hegemon
With the influx of wealth from the Americas going to Portugal and Spain having none of it there wouldnt be any way Spain would be able to pull off a successful invasion of Portugal either
So in this world the portuguese rule the waves
And with constant opposition of Catholic Spain & Italy and the spanish-controlled church you could expect a schism between Portugal and Rome to happen
A "Lusitan Church" if you will
As for OTL Anglican Church, its almost certain it wouldnt happen, a lot of factors led to it including but not limited to the existence of Henry the Eight and his marriage to a spanish princess
In this timeline England would instead pursue a portuguese princess and still try to ally itself to Portugal
Why? Because Portugal's huge navy and they being a island, as well as the rivalry with France and Spain also being right there
Thus England would most likely ironically stay catholic while also being a junior partner to Portugal like a inverted mirror of OTL
Portugal for it's part, much like the english of our world, would be happy to let them explore and colonize any area of the Americas that is not of their interest while England itself would only be interest in the northern areas they found in Newfoundland anyways
Expect a "Tordesilla Treaty" that cuts America in half in a horizontal manner, with the portuguese claiming all of South America and the english all of North America, made more so in an atempt of the portuguese to please their allies as they can enforce whatever claims they want anyways
The english for their part would likely center their colonization on the rich and warm Caribbean as they would never have to fight the spanish over it
In short, expect a british Caribbean
Something like the Thirten Colonies would probably exist with far less economic interest from their part and help from native americans, meaning what would be "America" in this world would most likely be limited to the area around New England
Should this Caribbean-New England stay together they should become a great power
And chances are England could even manage to hold them this time around
Why little native aid though?
One word - France
Seeing the riches Portugal and England are finding in the New World, with less focus on the continent due to Spain or on Spain itself due to it being significantly poorer and without the claim to the spanish crown that led to the War of Spanish Succession, France would have all the energy to spend on their colonial ventures and with a navy at least strong enough to let Portugal not care about their meddling in North America
Thus the french, who loved to "ally" and vassalanize tribes and made them their trade partners/subjects would have a free hand to expand their holdings all across the Mississipi and without any spanish to spoil their fun
Expect what is Canada today to be just a massive Quebec and "Louisiana" to extend from the Mississipi to California
Should these colonies stay united this "New France", composed of native tribes with french as their lingua franca and french settlers of perhaps huguenot origins, would become a superpower
France itself meanwhile, though still nominally catholic, would still have a huge rivalry with both England & Spain, plus now Italy and the germanic states as well
This would likely lead them to take a page of Portugal's book here and become "protestant with extra steps", with an Avignon Papacy being Huguenot in all but name
The treasures of the Americas would ensure that any revolution on the mainland would look like a fever dream
Spain on the other hand, the focus point of this scenario, wouldnt be doing nothing
With their alliance with Italy they would rule the mediterranean and with the african kingdoms seeking their aid they might have just enough strenght to kick the portuguese out of their holdings in mainland Africa
This wouldnt stop them from lagging behind Portugal, but it does mean the (papal)catholic world would be able to become self sufficient in trade & resources and if there's any revolution in Europe because of this lack of advance in comparison to the lusitans it wouldnt be like OTL french revolution
It wouldnt be anticlerical or expansionist, but rather a very isolationist and traditionalist one ala Boxer Rebellion that doubles down on catholicism(though perhaps a more cathar-like version of it) pursuing not just a Hermit Kingdom but a Hermit Europe trying to catch up to the portuguese by "other means"(think the Qing's use of medicine & manufacture, the reforms made in Napoleonic France and Tsarist Russia) and forever holding the moral high ground of opposing slavery against their rivals in any possible conversation
Should they still pull off this weird kind of modernization(like the Soviet Union or Red China) they would surprisingly still be a great power and should Spain-Italy manage to keep Catholic Europe united under their rule they could even still become a superpower on the lines of a Federal European Union
Speaking of Russia, where would they be in all this? What would the nordic countries and the balkans? Would Poland be buffed wuth that many allies?
Well Catholicism in Germany has huge consequences
Without protestants either from England or the germanic states creating a protestant holdout in Scandinavia, which means whatever Empire rises there it would be catholic
However what made the Kingdom of Poland and Poland-Lithuania fail in our timeline fail ij our timeline is little affected by the POD, catholicism itself is no guarantee that the germans or anybody else would go for a alliance with Poland and if they did perhaps the polish would do better against other slavic states but ultimately the nobility holding it down and refusing to reform would still be there
But that doesnt mean there wouldnt be a catholic power in the baltics
With a catholic Scandinavia there certainly would be an Empire(be it norwegian or swedish like in our timeline) that would want to expand there and they would most likely be more successful than OTL Sweden at that, which likely means Russia falling to it and it enforcing it's rule on Scandinavia(something like the Kalmar Union) and in Germany, which could perhaps lead to some kind of german nationalism in the long run - should this Germany unify it most certainly would be a great power
Should this Scandinavian Empire retain their gains on Eastern Europe, expect it to become a superpower
As for the orthodox population, eh, it's better not to talk about it
But what I can say is that the Ottomans would be seen as a very tolerant and likeable empire who would receive such a influx of eastern christian immigrants that they would never suffer lack of manpower issues, overpopulation on the hand...
Needless to say they would be able to retain Egypt with such a boost and remain the hegemonic power in the Middle East, should they successfully take advantage of this they would remain a great power forever
What about the Netherlands then? And Mexico and Asia?!
With a continental-focused and uber-catholic Spain the dutch would be under brutal occupation
The spanish would literally never let go of it and unless Portugal focus all their maritme power on bring Spain to it's knees to "free" the Netherlands by holding them by gunpoint they would never be allowed to break free, and Portugal wouldnt mind you
Thus on this somber note I say, the dutch might still have a colonial empire
"Wait what? But you said!"
I know, but while the spanish would be holding the dutch with a iron gripe they wouldnt care whatever they are doing so long it is not rebelling and becoming protestant, in fact Spain wouldnt mind any bit if what the dutch are doing is getting rid of the protestants for them!
And the protestants just so happen to be the group that most want to leave and explore!(alongside any other spanish minority ITTL)
Thus you could still see dutch explorers sailing around the world, fighting the portuguese and kicking ass all on their own with as little funds as Spain is willing to give them to spite the portuguese and get rid of people they dont like(similar to what happened to the puritans)
But what would the dutch find then? Well there's one place that is not of the interest of either the portuguese(heavily focusing on South America and Asia), England(focusing on their greater "New England) or France(going for the whole North America) and that is Central America
Yes in this timeline the Netherlands discover Mexico
In fact if you wanna be a romantic you can even imagine Columbus going to the Netherlands in his pursuit of the Indies and Luther as well going there hoping to leave to a place where his works might be accept, perhaps they could even meet!And become a couple, have kids, etc
However I dont think the dutch would have the ability to conquer it, they have no resources to pull of a conquest Central America nor the insane luck both Cortez and Pizzaro enjoyed
Rather I think the dutch would do what they do best, business
The Aztec Empire was doomed anyways and the Inca were in crisis, seeing this situation the dutch would support and ally themselves with whoever was going to become the winners in these situations, being always the middle men who helps settling disputes and occasionally spreading their religion
So plot twist, the Dutch West Indies in this timeline would be a native Mexica, and should they "discover" the Incas as well the "company" would be a Mexican-Incan Empire with a dutch coat of paint, a protestant one at that!
Should this Mexican(and Incan?) Trade Empire keep going it would be a great power, possibly even a superpower
As for their asian colonies, the dutch have no resources or manpower for it, let alone to compete with Mega-Portugal...on their own
With pragmatism they would instead pursue native allies willing to trade and/or convert much like in Central America, and seeing their "friendship" with Japan IOTL who hated the Iberians it stands to reason that they would be the main drive of the "Dutch" Empire
Yes, there would be a "East Indies Company" in this world as well, and it would be a Japanese Empire
Japan, likely being wise enough to not try conquering the whole China AND Korea this time with Portugal encroaching them from every direction and waiting for any wrong move would instead follow the dutch way focusing on the so-called Indies
Should this Japan "pull a Meiji" it would become a superpower
What about Portugal though? The most benefited nation in this timeline and already a superpower
In fact, I'd say in this world they are a hyperpower
However it would not take long for their house of cards to fall
Portugal's navy in this reality, much like the british on our own, would be unstoppable and Portugal itself would be industrializing at a extremely fast pace
Save for maybe a isolated Inca Kingdom in the Andean Mountains that they dont care about anyways and only the dutch bother trading with, the entirety of South America would be under undisputable portuguese control
And while the spanish may have aided the africans into "convincing" them from taking slaves from there to spoil their "fun" and they didnt have the luck & tact as the british to swallow the entirety of that subcontinent(but still took all of Southern India! And the coastal areas!) they more than make up for it
The Ming of OTL may have been able to drive off the portuguese to only their "leased" areas and executed the rest, but this Lusitania is a whole different beast and not even the collapsing dynasty could stop them from depopulating whole regions in China, Korea and India in their endless pursuit of slaves
It didnt help either that the new manchu rulers initially didnt even bother with the "barbarians" stealing a fell of their rebellish Han subjects
Meanwhile distant lands such as the entirety of Oceania were added to the Empire to ignore such "small embarassments" with the "non-white" territories
Of course, having the entire planet hating them didnt help the old land of the lusitans one bit
The Jewel of the Crown of the Portuguese Empire, South America, would inevitably become a land populated by asian slaves from different civilisations who make up the majority of the population and despite the estabilishment's effort to destroy their culture they would remain defiant and despising their colonial leaders
Eventually it would be the tail wagging the dog again, except this time the dog is the British Empire with a lusitan coat of paint and the tail is a pan-asian nation larger than Russia
It might take a bit long for this "Brazil" to go independent, but it certainly would
It would have little to do with OTL south american countries though, rather, this nation would have more in common with Tibet, who holds both indian and east asian cultures
Such Russia-sized "Tibetan Empire" would still be "lusophone", likely speaking a portuguese pidgin language much like Goa's, possessing a syncretic religion derived from Buddhism with aspects of Christianity like the Mun Faith of the Lepcha people and whose name would likely be derived from the La Plata river much like Argentina, along the lines of "Kingdom of the Silver River" if we take a bit of inspiration from China's name for the full name but for the singular name I could see something like "Arjenteena" derived from hindi
The independence war of such nation would likely be much more violent than the brazilian or argentinian ones however, more than the american one for sure, rather it'd be akin to the Paraguayan War & the American Civil War and I could only see Portugal recognizing them by accepting a portuguese heir on their throne while Portugal claims to have "conceded" them their independence because...thats precisely what Portugal did IOTL with Brazil and I dont think they could ever back down without that, even then it'd be a bloody affair, likely ending with a "compromise" where the "Silver Kingdom" would take a child monarch from the portuguese royal family much like Portugal often did IOTL such as Pedro I placing his children Pedro on his brazilian throne and Maria on Portugal's own throne
Said monarch would in turn be raised as a proper citizen of said kingdom(think Pedro the Second as a shaolin monk), following it's religion and being married off to a native while portuguese institutions that doesnt suit this new civilisation made of an amalgamation of asian cultures would be replaced by new ones, should this leviathan of a country remain united it definitely would become a superpower
OG Asia on the other hand would have a uneasy anti-portuguese alliance taking shape
China, now rebuilt under the Qing, would desperately be pursuing modernization not only to never be at mercy of westerns again(though those spanish guys do look nice with their offerings of free technology and mutuam hatred of Portugal) but also to not fa behind the "rebellious" japanese who refuse to give them proper tribute and instead managed to build a solid Empire for itself that threatens even the Great China but nonethless are united with them in their war against the portuguese
India itself, with it's unconquered North, also builds up it's strenght and like the chinese pursue industrialization to "free" the rest of the subcontinent of the portuguese, nevermind becoming vassals of China, they'd rather be tributary states like Tibet than to ever suffer portuguese rule, accepting the compromise of a confederacy of independent princedoms protected by the Qing
The impact of Christianity was far more dramatic in there as well, with Portugal violently imposing it under it's rule and in peak crusader mentality pursuing the destruction of all that is unchristian
Hinduism would still be the religion of India pf course, but with such traumatic experience leaving its marks and making it more similar to the Allopanishad religion from OTL than the hinduism we know
Much like in Africa(dominated by abolitionist spanish protectorates thank you very much!) the portuguese would be driven off by literally every faction being united in a alliance against them once they all managed to catch up
Even Europe itself, should the catholics also succeed in matching the portuguese, would try to drive them off from the continent in a Great War the moment Portugal faces a disaster such as the Earthquake that destroyed Lisbon
And nevermind if the portuguese wins, any victory would be a phyrric victory that would look a lot more like a stalemate and would convince the lusitans that they have to change their administration center to somewhere more secure, far away from the reach of any of their enemies even though they'll never let go of mainland Portugal
This means moving to one of their remaining "Domínios" in Oceania and considering climate it most likely would be New Zealand, who'd become the new Imperial Capital holding the full might of the Portuguese Navy with Australia, Polynesia and the European Metropolis remaining "integral parts of the nation" in similar fashion to Salazarian Portugal's grip on it's colony, but this time ever harder, with Oceania so far away from Japan & China's power projection and the mainland so deeply industrialised & militarised that this "Império Português" would live on no matter what
(Nevermind those folks calling them "kiwis" now, take it as a compliment and take your bacalhau and eat it!)
Thus ends my little scenario for a world without the Spanish Empire
Is it a better one? Probably not, I'd say as awful as OTL to the victims of it
Still hope ya'll like it nonethless, it took me an awful lot of time for this one
As for a name to it...I'll take a page from the TL "Unblightened America" and the spanish own association with the "Conquistadores" and call this the rather misleading name(as colonization still happens here)
"America Inconquistada"
Enjoy!
But why kill my waifu?
Well for one Columbus came to her with his request and the impetus for going West and converting the natives was her's
Her husband meanwhile was focused on his ventures in Italy and Africa
In this scenario, should Spain still be unified by this point, Ferdinand would fully have had his way and Columbus would either have gone home or tried again with someone else
With the spare men Spain would have not being used to, you know, occupy the entirety of Latin America, they'd perhaps have enough to secure their claims in Europe
This means Italy is likely unified earlier under a Pro-Spain Pope and Spain successfully occupies Gibraltar and Morocco
Such Italy would fight with France for the dominance over the Holy Roman Empire, and considering IOTL France still didnt succeed at doing so I think this Italy might just be strong enough to get Germany under it's sphere of influence - meaning, a Catholic Germany ITTL
As for spanish Africa, logistics prevent Spain from projecting power anywhere south and the portuguese would keep buying goods and people from their allied kingdoms
However in the long term I could see the african states turning on them when Portugal starts trying to exercise a more "direct" control and doing raids for slaves, with these states requesting help from Spain and happily providing logistical support if the spanish could just kick these portuguese out
So expect a more abolitionist catholicism(at least rhetorically) catching on in Africa and Spain itself
As for Portugal, without a rival like Spain in the New World they'd control all of their desired areas of influence in America and without a Iberian Union to wreck their navy there wouldnt be anything stopping them from being the world's maritme hegemon
With the influx of wealth from the Americas going to Portugal and Spain having none of it there wouldnt be any way Spain would be able to pull off a successful invasion of Portugal either
So in this world the portuguese rule the waves
And with constant opposition of Catholic Spain & Italy and the spanish-controlled church you could expect a schism between Portugal and Rome to happen
A "Lusitan Church" if you will
As for OTL Anglican Church, its almost certain it wouldnt happen, a lot of factors led to it including but not limited to the existence of Henry the Eight and his marriage to a spanish princess
In this timeline England would instead pursue a portuguese princess and still try to ally itself to Portugal
Why? Because Portugal's huge navy and they being a island, as well as the rivalry with France and Spain also being right there
Thus England would most likely ironically stay catholic while also being a junior partner to Portugal like a inverted mirror of OTL
Portugal for it's part, much like the english of our world, would be happy to let them explore and colonize any area of the Americas that is not of their interest while England itself would only be interest in the northern areas they found in Newfoundland anyways
Expect a "Tordesilla Treaty" that cuts America in half in a horizontal manner, with the portuguese claiming all of South America and the english all of North America, made more so in an atempt of the portuguese to please their allies as they can enforce whatever claims they want anyways
The english for their part would likely center their colonization on the rich and warm Caribbean as they would never have to fight the spanish over it
In short, expect a british Caribbean
Something like the Thirten Colonies would probably exist with far less economic interest from their part and help from native americans, meaning what would be "America" in this world would most likely be limited to the area around New England
Should this Caribbean-New England stay together they should become a great power
And chances are England could even manage to hold them this time around
Why little native aid though?
One word - France
Seeing the riches Portugal and England are finding in the New World, with less focus on the continent due to Spain or on Spain itself due to it being significantly poorer and without the claim to the spanish crown that led to the War of Spanish Succession, France would have all the energy to spend on their colonial ventures and with a navy at least strong enough to let Portugal not care about their meddling in North America
Thus the french, who loved to "ally" and vassalanize tribes and made them their trade partners/subjects would have a free hand to expand their holdings all across the Mississipi and without any spanish to spoil their fun
Expect what is Canada today to be just a massive Quebec and "Louisiana" to extend from the Mississipi to California
Should these colonies stay united this "New France", composed of native tribes with french as their lingua franca and french settlers of perhaps huguenot origins, would become a superpower
France itself meanwhile, though still nominally catholic, would still have a huge rivalry with both England & Spain, plus now Italy and the germanic states as well
This would likely lead them to take a page of Portugal's book here and become "protestant with extra steps", with an Avignon Papacy being Huguenot in all but name
The treasures of the Americas would ensure that any revolution on the mainland would look like a fever dream
Spain on the other hand, the focus point of this scenario, wouldnt be doing nothing
With their alliance with Italy they would rule the mediterranean and with the african kingdoms seeking their aid they might have just enough strenght to kick the portuguese out of their holdings in mainland Africa
This wouldnt stop them from lagging behind Portugal, but it does mean the (papal)catholic world would be able to become self sufficient in trade & resources and if there's any revolution in Europe because of this lack of advance in comparison to the lusitans it wouldnt be like OTL french revolution
It wouldnt be anticlerical or expansionist, but rather a very isolationist and traditionalist one ala Boxer Rebellion that doubles down on catholicism(though perhaps a more cathar-like version of it) pursuing not just a Hermit Kingdom but a Hermit Europe trying to catch up to the portuguese by "other means"(think the Qing's use of medicine & manufacture, the reforms made in Napoleonic France and Tsarist Russia) and forever holding the moral high ground of opposing slavery against their rivals in any possible conversation
Should they still pull off this weird kind of modernization(like the Soviet Union or Red China) they would surprisingly still be a great power and should Spain-Italy manage to keep Catholic Europe united under their rule they could even still become a superpower on the lines of a Federal European Union
Speaking of Russia, where would they be in all this? What would the nordic countries and the balkans? Would Poland be buffed wuth that many allies?
Well Catholicism in Germany has huge consequences
Without protestants either from England or the germanic states creating a protestant holdout in Scandinavia, which means whatever Empire rises there it would be catholic
However what made the Kingdom of Poland and Poland-Lithuania fail in our timeline fail ij our timeline is little affected by the POD, catholicism itself is no guarantee that the germans or anybody else would go for a alliance with Poland and if they did perhaps the polish would do better against other slavic states but ultimately the nobility holding it down and refusing to reform would still be there
But that doesnt mean there wouldnt be a catholic power in the baltics
With a catholic Scandinavia there certainly would be an Empire(be it norwegian or swedish like in our timeline) that would want to expand there and they would most likely be more successful than OTL Sweden at that, which likely means Russia falling to it and it enforcing it's rule on Scandinavia(something like the Kalmar Union) and in Germany, which could perhaps lead to some kind of german nationalism in the long run - should this Germany unify it most certainly would be a great power
Should this Scandinavian Empire retain their gains on Eastern Europe, expect it to become a superpower
As for the orthodox population, eh, it's better not to talk about it
But what I can say is that the Ottomans would be seen as a very tolerant and likeable empire who would receive such a influx of eastern christian immigrants that they would never suffer lack of manpower issues, overpopulation on the hand...
Needless to say they would be able to retain Egypt with such a boost and remain the hegemonic power in the Middle East, should they successfully take advantage of this they would remain a great power forever
What about the Netherlands then? And Mexico and Asia?!
With a continental-focused and uber-catholic Spain the dutch would be under brutal occupation
The spanish would literally never let go of it and unless Portugal focus all their maritme power on bring Spain to it's knees to "free" the Netherlands by holding them by gunpoint they would never be allowed to break free, and Portugal wouldnt mind you
Thus on this somber note I say, the dutch might still have a colonial empire
"Wait what? But you said!"
I know, but while the spanish would be holding the dutch with a iron gripe they wouldnt care whatever they are doing so long it is not rebelling and becoming protestant, in fact Spain wouldnt mind any bit if what the dutch are doing is getting rid of the protestants for them!
And the protestants just so happen to be the group that most want to leave and explore!(alongside any other spanish minority ITTL)
Thus you could still see dutch explorers sailing around the world, fighting the portuguese and kicking ass all on their own with as little funds as Spain is willing to give them to spite the portuguese and get rid of people they dont like(similar to what happened to the puritans)
But what would the dutch find then? Well there's one place that is not of the interest of either the portuguese(heavily focusing on South America and Asia), England(focusing on their greater "New England) or France(going for the whole North America) and that is Central America
Yes in this timeline the Netherlands discover Mexico
In fact if you wanna be a romantic you can even imagine Columbus going to the Netherlands in his pursuit of the Indies and Luther as well going there hoping to leave to a place where his works might be accept, perhaps they could even meet!
However I dont think the dutch would have the ability to conquer it, they have no resources to pull of a conquest Central America nor the insane luck both Cortez and Pizzaro enjoyed
Rather I think the dutch would do what they do best, business
The Aztec Empire was doomed anyways and the Inca were in crisis, seeing this situation the dutch would support and ally themselves with whoever was going to become the winners in these situations, being always the middle men who helps settling disputes and occasionally spreading their religion
So plot twist, the Dutch West Indies in this timeline would be a native Mexica, and should they "discover" the Incas as well the "company" would be a Mexican-Incan Empire with a dutch coat of paint, a protestant one at that!
Should this Mexican(and Incan?) Trade Empire keep going it would be a great power, possibly even a superpower
As for their asian colonies, the dutch have no resources or manpower for it, let alone to compete with Mega-Portugal...on their own
With pragmatism they would instead pursue native allies willing to trade and/or convert much like in Central America, and seeing their "friendship" with Japan IOTL who hated the Iberians it stands to reason that they would be the main drive of the "Dutch" Empire
Yes, there would be a "East Indies Company" in this world as well, and it would be a Japanese Empire
Japan, likely being wise enough to not try conquering the whole China AND Korea this time with Portugal encroaching them from every direction and waiting for any wrong move would instead follow the dutch way focusing on the so-called Indies
Should this Japan "pull a Meiji" it would become a superpower
What about Portugal though? The most benefited nation in this timeline and already a superpower
In fact, I'd say in this world they are a hyperpower
However it would not take long for their house of cards to fall
Portugal's navy in this reality, much like the british on our own, would be unstoppable and Portugal itself would be industrializing at a extremely fast pace
Save for maybe a isolated Inca Kingdom in the Andean Mountains that they dont care about anyways and only the dutch bother trading with, the entirety of South America would be under undisputable portuguese control
And while the spanish may have aided the africans into "convincing" them from taking slaves from there to spoil their "fun" and they didnt have the luck & tact as the british to swallow the entirety of that subcontinent(but still took all of Southern India! And the coastal areas!) they more than make up for it
The Ming of OTL may have been able to drive off the portuguese to only their "leased" areas and executed the rest, but this Lusitania is a whole different beast and not even the collapsing dynasty could stop them from depopulating whole regions in China, Korea and India in their endless pursuit of slaves
It didnt help either that the new manchu rulers initially didnt even bother with the "barbarians" stealing a fell of their rebellish Han subjects
Meanwhile distant lands such as the entirety of Oceania were added to the Empire to ignore such "small embarassments" with the "non-white" territories
Of course, having the entire planet hating them didnt help the old land of the lusitans one bit
The Jewel of the Crown of the Portuguese Empire, South America, would inevitably become a land populated by asian slaves from different civilisations who make up the majority of the population and despite the estabilishment's effort to destroy their culture they would remain defiant and despising their colonial leaders
Eventually it would be the tail wagging the dog again, except this time the dog is the British Empire with a lusitan coat of paint and the tail is a pan-asian nation larger than Russia
It might take a bit long for this "Brazil" to go independent, but it certainly would
It would have little to do with OTL south american countries though, rather, this nation would have more in common with Tibet, who holds both indian and east asian cultures
Such Russia-sized "Tibetan Empire" would still be "lusophone", likely speaking a portuguese pidgin language much like Goa's, possessing a syncretic religion derived from Buddhism with aspects of Christianity like the Mun Faith of the Lepcha people and whose name would likely be derived from the La Plata river much like Argentina, along the lines of "Kingdom of the Silver River" if we take a bit of inspiration from China's name for the full name but for the singular name I could see something like "Arjenteena" derived from hindi
The independence war of such nation would likely be much more violent than the brazilian or argentinian ones however, more than the american one for sure, rather it'd be akin to the Paraguayan War & the American Civil War and I could only see Portugal recognizing them by accepting a portuguese heir on their throne while Portugal claims to have "conceded" them their independence because...thats precisely what Portugal did IOTL with Brazil and I dont think they could ever back down without that, even then it'd be a bloody affair, likely ending with a "compromise" where the "Silver Kingdom" would take a child monarch from the portuguese royal family much like Portugal often did IOTL such as Pedro I placing his children Pedro on his brazilian throne and Maria on Portugal's own throne
Said monarch would in turn be raised as a proper citizen of said kingdom(think Pedro the Second as a shaolin monk), following it's religion and being married off to a native while portuguese institutions that doesnt suit this new civilisation made of an amalgamation of asian cultures would be replaced by new ones, should this leviathan of a country remain united it definitely would become a superpower
OG Asia on the other hand would have a uneasy anti-portuguese alliance taking shape
China, now rebuilt under the Qing, would desperately be pursuing modernization not only to never be at mercy of westerns again(though those spanish guys do look nice with their offerings of free technology and mutuam hatred of Portugal) but also to not fa behind the "rebellious" japanese who refuse to give them proper tribute and instead managed to build a solid Empire for itself that threatens even the Great China but nonethless are united with them in their war against the portuguese
India itself, with it's unconquered North, also builds up it's strenght and like the chinese pursue industrialization to "free" the rest of the subcontinent of the portuguese, nevermind becoming vassals of China, they'd rather be tributary states like Tibet than to ever suffer portuguese rule, accepting the compromise of a confederacy of independent princedoms protected by the Qing
The impact of Christianity was far more dramatic in there as well, with Portugal violently imposing it under it's rule and in peak crusader mentality pursuing the destruction of all that is unchristian
Hinduism would still be the religion of India pf course, but with such traumatic experience leaving its marks and making it more similar to the Allopanishad religion from OTL than the hinduism we know
Much like in Africa(dominated by abolitionist spanish protectorates thank you very much!) the portuguese would be driven off by literally every faction being united in a alliance against them once they all managed to catch up
Even Europe itself, should the catholics also succeed in matching the portuguese, would try to drive them off from the continent in a Great War the moment Portugal faces a disaster such as the Earthquake that destroyed Lisbon
And nevermind if the portuguese wins, any victory would be a phyrric victory that would look a lot more like a stalemate and would convince the lusitans that they have to change their administration center to somewhere more secure, far away from the reach of any of their enemies even though they'll never let go of mainland Portugal
This means moving to one of their remaining "Domínios" in Oceania and considering climate it most likely would be New Zealand, who'd become the new Imperial Capital holding the full might of the Portuguese Navy with Australia, Polynesia and the European Metropolis remaining "integral parts of the nation" in similar fashion to Salazarian Portugal's grip on it's colony, but this time ever harder, with Oceania so far away from Japan & China's power projection and the mainland so deeply industrialised & militarised that this "Império Português" would live on no matter what
(Nevermind those folks calling them "kiwis" now, take it as a compliment and take your bacalhau and eat it!)
Thus ends my little scenario for a world without the Spanish Empire
Is it a better one? Probably not, I'd say as awful as OTL to the victims of it
Still hope ya'll like it nonethless, it took me an awful lot of time for this one
As for a name to it...I'll take a page from the TL "Unblightened America" and the spanish own association with the "Conquistadores" and call this the rather misleading name(as colonization still happens here)
"America Inconquistada"
Enjoy!
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Thank you so much! I've even saved this on my phone. The world building is amazing and the POD is surprisingly impactful considering how the rest of TTL goes
I don't know to be honest. On the one hand Portugal, a small nation, managed to create a country with over 200 million people.
On the other, it definitely would be difficult for it to hold the territories that Spain held OTL.
I think the Inca Empire would survive, whilst the rest of South America would become Portuguese.
North America I'm not really sure what would happen. It would be a contest between the English, French, Dutch and possibly Spain and Portugal
Portugal would treat Inca like how they treat the Congo Kingdom.
The main issue I see here is Columbus' report. Columbus considered his mission a failure because he wanted to establish a trade relationship with the big asian markets, China and India, which he could not. He hence felt the need to justify his voyage by greatly exaggerating the amount of gold, that could be found in the new world. This ultimativly triggered the Gold Feaver that drove the Conquistadors. If the Spaniards wouldn't pay, likely some other European power would have.
That's true but the thread is less Spanish colonization, not less European colonization so that's what I was going for.
