AHC: Keep Europe Religious
- Thread starter Gabingston
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Why? Especially the Second Vatican Council is a major PoD, which IMHO, and I'm a Dutch Roman Catholic, needs to able to discussed freely, politics or not. It massively changed the Church. Including, I agree the current struggle between staying liberal or becoming more conservative again, which IMHO is a lose-lose to begin with. Too radical changes will turnoff the other side.
This is dumb on so many levels
By that logic any kind of organization, belief or code which requires anything from you or has preestabilished rules on what to do or how to behave is "somewhat totalitarian" and therefore the only thing not "tainted" by totalitarism is anarchism in it's purest state, which itself would become "somewhat totalitarian" following that description the moment it made a rule like "you cant follow that shit its totalitarian"
In fact by that definition any ideology is also "somewhat totalitarian"
Comparing something like Lent or religious holidays to something like Nazism is a disservice to society, it relativizes it, trivializes it and we've seen the horrors of atrocities being made trivial before
And considering how many of the victims of the totalitarian regimes, be one like Hitlerite Germany or like Stalinist Russia, were in fact religious(jews, jenovah witnesses, priests and so on) such religious trolling is fucking distasteful, so please cut it out.
Ukrainian Victory
Banned
AFAIK, this was so crazy that if one had ten or more children one literally needed to give one of them up to the church so that they could become a monk or a nun or a priest or a cardinal.
Could you find a source for that?AFAIK, this was so crazy that if one had ten or more children one literally needed to give one of them up to the church so that they could become a monk or a nun or a priest or a cardinal.
Ukrainian Victory
Banned
Well, that's apparently what happened to St. Hildegard of Bingen:
A "tithe child" - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board
I was reading about Hildegarde of Bingen (1078-1179), and the article said that she was the tenth child of a noble family. It said that, in that time, the tenth child was usually give to the church as a tithe. I tried to…
boards.straightdope.com
Hildegard of Bingen
www2.kenyon.edu
Is this a sufficient source for you?
That's not generally how tithing worked. Paying the tithe was often (the European Middle Ages was a very long time over a very wide area so things varied quite a bit) enforced by the local government. It was also generally restricted to objects and rarely land.Well, that's apparently what happened to St. Hildegard of Bingen:
A "tithe child" - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board
I was reading about Hildegarde of Bingen (1078-1179), and the article said that she was the tenth child of a noble family. It said that, in that time, the tenth child was usually give to the church as a tithe. I tried to…
Hildegard of Bingen
www2.kenyon.edu
Is this a sufficient source for you?
I did try to check some other reputable sources and I didn't find any direct link; there is a big difference between being the tenth child and entering a nunnery and being forced in the nunnery for being the 10th child.
What I can say is she started showing signs of being a mystic before entering the nunnery, so given the time period she was probably going anyway.
Also, while everyone is pretty pretty sure she is the youngest of 10, records are fuzzy and from what I saw we only have 100% of 7 siblings.
My first thought would be before 1900.
But my second thought, would actually be: probably around WWI but definitely by WWII (could also vary be country) make both religious and secular education better.
What I mean is, when someone only partially understand something but thinks they know all about it they can be very dismissive about it.
In my personal experience, I see this a lot in talking to people about religion. I don't know how many times I've talked to a former Catholic only to find out that one of the things they hate about the Catholic Church is a half truth or they assumed was a rule for no reason because know one explained to them what reason was.
Similarly, I remember back around highschool scientifically minded adults trying to use the Big Bang as an argument against religion because they thought they fully understood the theory but didn't.
If you could pull that off atheism and agnosticism would still grow, but I wouldn't be surprised if Christian religion remains popular until the modern scandals break. Possible even until modern current polchat topics (as close as I'm getting to that) develop.
But my second thought, would actually be: probably around WWI but definitely by WWII (could also vary be country) make both religious and secular education better.
What I mean is, when someone only partially understand something but thinks they know all about it they can be very dismissive about it.
In my personal experience, I see this a lot in talking to people about religion. I don't know how many times I've talked to a former Catholic only to find out that one of the things they hate about the Catholic Church is a half truth or they assumed was a rule for no reason because know one explained to them what reason was.
Similarly, I remember back around highschool scientifically minded adults trying to use the Big Bang as an argument against religion because they thought they fully understood the theory but didn't.
If you could pull that off atheism and agnosticism would still grow, but I wouldn't be surprised if Christian religion remains popular until the modern scandals break. Possible even until modern current polchat topics (as close as I'm getting to that) develop.
If I remember correctly the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic priest.
Georges Lemaître - Wikipedia
Similar theories existed prior to him, but he was the one to propose the modern form of it.If I remember correctly the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic priest.
Georges Lemaître - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
On that note, the Catholic Church would probably be stronger if Vatican II and even Vatican I had just not happened. If the Church is supposed to be a timeless moral authority and cultural institution which gradually evolves in light of centuries of rigorous theological study, then it really can't be overhauling itself twice within a single century...
-and that's without even touching on how it accelerated the liberal-conservative divide within the Church.
Could there perhaps be Cold war revivals? In the Usa fear of nuclear war, and communist subugation, lead to a restored interest in faith. Europe shares the concern but not quite to the same intensity as decolonizatiom led to the end of old ideas, about the throne alter connection.
I will be bold and say avoiding WW1 will not help Christianity: In theology, the world war (at least in Germany) just showed the bankruptcy of 'cultural protestantism' which thought that the kingdom of God would be the never-ending progress of humanity. If this catharsis is avoided, the cracks will just appear later. Also, after WW2 church attendancy skyrocketed in Germany.
It would help if the churches would earlier dissociate themselves from the ruling order (whether it's royal, republican or whatever) because tying themselves to the state has never helped the church in the long run. There's a reason the alliance between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church hasn't helped in the decline of church going.
It would help if the churches would earlier dissociate themselves from the ruling order (whether it's royal, republican or whatever) because tying themselves to the state has never helped the church in the long run. There's a reason the alliance between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church hasn't helped in the decline of church going.
you know full well what is meanrt by that .
the USA, Poland and Hungary are all examples of Christo-fascist states
you don;t need any formal tie between state and Church to become a theocracy , the 'Christian Taliban' of the GOP demonstrate that