Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Could ancient Israelites create a colony somewhere in Modern day Tunisia or Libya a'la Carthage if the Phoenicians do not do that?
AHC: Jewish "Carthage"
- Thread starter Otto Kretschmer
- Start date
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Those colonies are going to be at least monolatrist.
How much can you wank such colonies?
How much can you wank such colonies?
Well I think they can pretty much do everything the Phoenicians did, but maybe on a smaller scale if you think their numbers are going to be smaller, but at the end of the day you just need the Israelite component to be dominant while you still integrate other Canaanite settlers, to boost the numbers.
Perhaps if a Israeli port City is built on the Gulf of Aqaba, Israelites could Colonize coastal Arabia?
Who's to say that there weren't Israelites amongst the people who founded cities like Carthage? If we make an assumption from the Bible, the Israelites were not ardent monotheists and dabbled in the worship of various Canaanite deities like Baal or Melqart. There is even a legend amongst the Jewish community of Djerba that they are descendants from exiles fleeing the depradities of Nebuchadnezzar II. Here's an idea for a PoD. Have Jezebel, Queen of Israel, win in her power struggle against Jehu and the Yahwehist priesthood. Jehu escapes death and gathers an army of supporters and on the advice of the Phoenicians, charter some ships to transport them to North Africa.
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
Is Tarshish another name for Tartessos in Spain? What and where was Ophir?
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
So the monotheist branch of the people grows in North Africa, and their Yahwist temple grows there, while Jezebel leads backsliding to polytheism. So that in the ultimatum history of the alt-bible, Jerusalem has a role in the story of the chosen people, but just as a more recent stop than Abraham's Ur, or Moses' Egypt, with the new city and land in Africa becoming the even more central and important promised land?
raharris1973
Gone Fishin'
This culture can echo down the ages, unless it has the bad luck to meet Rome.
More religiously devout Jews may have higher birthrates today, but I'm not sure how true that was in antiquity.
That would be an interesting timeline.
You would eventually need, one way or another, to bring the Yahwehists back to the Levant, due to the covenant with the patriarchs. Jerusalem can't be just another stop.
If Jewish Carthage becomes the Rome-equivalent, I can see them desiring to conquer the Levant to fulfill the covenant with the patriarchs. Imagine the major religious schism in the Mediterranean not being Christian vs Muslim but Yahwehists vs Asherah-worshippers.
Supposedly this was where Ezion-Geber was located, the port where Judah and Israel sent out royal trading fleets from. A large city has never been found but there was a port and fortress here dating to when the events of the Book of Kings and Book of Chronicles are said to have taken place at.
The issue is that the OTL Israel and Judah probably did not have the ability to send large fleets in the 9th century BC since archaeology shows they were small, decentralized states rather contrary to their depiction in the Bible. I'm fairly certain that the lands of the Israelites were much poorer than Phoenicia and nowhere near as based on maritime commerce. Not sure how you would change this without screwing the Phoenicians.
Tartessos is the most suggested location for Tarshish, but the location is unknown. It could be Tarsus in Cilicia or Sardinia or another location in the western Mediterranean.
Ophir's location is unknown, but it was a real location the Israelites traded with which was assumed to be a city. Some suggest it was in the Horn of Africa or even India.