AHC: Exact justice on Josef Mengele

[Gillan1220]

Inspired from the following threads:

• Joseph Goebbels at Nuremberg?
• Heinrich Himmler at Nuremberg?

Your challenge should you choose to accept is to make your own scenario where this evil man has the hammer of justice served on him.
OP EDIT: Please make it justice, not revenge.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

Get's caught in his torture chamber and is put up against the nearest wall and shot, as happened to many of the concentration camp staff.

 

[The Tai-Pan]

Captured and tried at Nuremberg or one of the later trials.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

Tries to flee to South America, gets captured by a tribe of cannibals and roasted.

 

[Crazy Boris]

Struck by lightning
Six times
In a row

As if Zeus himself (and/or Thor, Marduk, Perun, Indra, Xolotl. I kinda like the idea of gods of multiple religions deciding “this guy has to go” and working together) decided to yeet this mortal instead of waiting for the humans to do it.

 

[RedSword12]

Isn't this just revenge fantasy at this point? It doesn't require a thread to answer the question. Just have Mengele captured whilst trying to escape, and hanged after being put on trial. It's that simple.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

I suppose the most interesting would be for one of the Nazi hunters to find him in South America and have Mossad kidnap him and drag him back to Israel for a show trial and inevitable execution.

 

[McPherson]

Inspired from the following threads:

• Joseph Goebbels at Nuremberg?
• Heinrich Himmler at Nuremberg?

Your challenge should you choose to accept is to make your own scenario where the bastard has the hammer of justice served on him.

Depends on the objective: revenge or "justice"?

a. If it is revenge, then one kills him out of hand and he is a blip... a footnote for historians.
b. If it is justice, then the bastard is found postwar and delivered to a suitable venue, tried and hanged or decapitated by guillotine by one of the protecting states, whose citizens were murdered in his medical experiments after a supervised and sanctioned trial with international authority under international law (Example; something like an admiralty court.) The idea, here, is to establish formal international law protocols to make his activities universally illegal within the human community of nations and to bring additional international sanctions to bear against any nation which sanctions, harbors or condones or allows such practitioners to waste oxygen.

My preference is b. because if that can be done with Mengele as the prime legal example and exemplar, then bastards like Shirō Ishii, and the states which allowed him to continue breathing, could be rectified in their crimes and illegal international law behavior. And yes I mean the United States in this intent. There was no reason or justification to allow what happened postwar to happen. A Mengele prosecution would also have helped with this:

Public Health Service Study of Untreated Syphilis at Tuskegee and Macon County, AL - Timeline - CDC - OS

Tuskegee Syphilis Study Timeline

www.cdc.gov

Did a U.S. surgeon general come up with the idea of the notorious Tuskegee syphilis experiment?

For 40 years, American government doctors treated hundreds of black men with syphilis as if they were human guinea pigs. But whose idea was the Tuskegee Syphilis Study? A Philadelphia author says documents point to the future surgeon general of the United States.

www.inquirer.com

By establishing in International Law that criminal sadistic experimentation upon human beings under the guise of "medical research" is a crime punishable against the conspirators who create, endorse, allow and promote such practices, maybe such outrages in the future can be lessened or avoided at least in nations that attempt to be law-abiding within the international community.

 

[Gillan1220]

My preference is b. because if that can be done with Mengele as the prime legal example and exemplar, then bastards like Shirō Ishii, and the states which allowed him to continue breathing, could be rectified in their crimes and illegal international law behavior. And yes I mean the United States in this intent. There was no reason or justification to allow what happened postwar to happen. A Mengele prosecution would also have helped with this:

Public Health Service Study of Untreated Syphilis at Tuskegee and Macon County, AL - Timeline - CDC - OS

Tuskegee Syphilis Study Timeline

www.cdc.gov

Did a U.S. surgeon general come up with the idea of the notorious Tuskegee syphilis experiment?

For 40 years, American government doctors treated hundreds of black men with syphilis as if they were human guinea pigs. But whose idea was the Tuskegee Syphilis Study? A Philadelphia author says documents point to the future surgeon general of the United States.

www.inquirer.com

I'm for justice either. It what makes countries that abide by the rule of law different from the Nazis and the Japanese. I believe the gallows and a firing squad is too kind for Mengele. Perhaps the electric chair would have been better.

But keep in mind that many Nazi and Japanese scientists escaped the gallows because of Operation Paperclip and the data of Unit 731 which would was useful by the time of the Cold War. I do agree with yoy that Shiro Ishii should have been punished for his crimes. He continued just like the evil Masanobu Tsuji who managed to run for politics in the Diet in 1952 and escaped to the Laotian Civil War in 1961.

 

[Alanith]

The same Israelis who captured Eichmann run afoul of him when he fails to move just before they try for him.

 

[McPherson]

But keep in mind that many Nazi and Japanese scientists escaped the gallows because of Operation Paperclip and the data of Unit 731 which would was useful by the time of the Cold War. I do agree with yoy that Shiro Ishii should have been punished for his crimes. He continued just like the evil Masanobu Tsuji who managed to run for politics in the Diet in 1952 and escaped to the Laotian Civil War in 1961.

Neither Werner von Braun nor Shiro Ishii were needed to obtain the results they claimed they provided.

ATLAS owed nothing to von Braun. Neither really did the Saturn V.

Sheep and pigs could have been used in vector dispersion studies with war gasses and war-rated diseases. Besides, the only legitimate research in those regimes is to develop effective defenses against war criminals, both bandit states and criminal individuals who explore such terrorist weapons of mass casualty production and suffering. Ishii and Tsuji never were justified even in the criminal terms of the Tojo regime and its "objectives". They actually failed.

 

[Gillan1220]

Neither Werner von Braun nor Shiro Ishii were needed to obtain the results they claimed they provided.

ATLAS owed nothing to von Braun. Neither really did the Saturn V.

Sheep and pigs could have been used in vector dispersion studies with war gasses and war-rated diseases. Besides, the only legitimate research in those regimes is to develop effective defenses against war criminals, both bandit states and criminaL individuals who explore such terrorist weapons of mass casualty production and suffering. Ishii and Tsuji never were justified even in the criminal terms of the Tojo regime and its "objectives". They actually failed.

Ah how unfortunate those bastards never faced the hammer of justice. Mengele drowning in a pool was too kind for him.

Unfortunately, because of the change of allliances, some things were brushed aside since the Soviet Union and communism was the next threat. America was eager to have West Germany and Japan to serve as a bulwark against communism.

I'm not sure how Ishii escaped but I am certain from what I read that Tsuji managed to escape capture by going into areas where there were no Allied occupational forces. These include the forests of Southeast Asia and southern China. But it is beyond me how a high profile war criminal like Tsuji got to run into politics. Yeah, I get that he was a CIA asset but later turned to be a liability because Tsuji was a pan-Asianist who were known to play both sides of the coin. In this case, he would pit the West against the communists or vice versa when it suited his needs.

 

[RedSword12]

Neither Werner von Braun nor Shiro Ishii were needed to obtain the results they claimed they provided.

ATLAS owed nothing to von Braun. Neither really did the Saturn V.

Sheep and pigs could have been used in vector dispersion studies with war gasses and war-rated diseases. Besides, the only legitimate research in those regimes is to develop effective defenses against war criminals, both bandit states and criminal individuals who explore such terrorist weapons of mass casualty production and suffering. Ishii and Tsuji never were justified even in the criminal terms of the Tojo regime and its "objectives". They actually failed.

I disagree. Wernher von Braun was useful to the American space program. But I agree that Shiro Ishii wasn't useful to the Americans, not to any extent that would justify sparing him, even disregarding moral concerns.

 

[Captain Homicide]

Your challenge should you choose to accept is to make your own scenario where the bastard has the hammer of justice served on him.

This may not have been your intent but there’s a chance this thread will be closed since it seems to be conducive to revenge fantasies as seen already. CalBear closed a similar thread about punishing Hitler last month for the same reason.

 

[McPherson]

I disagree. Wernher von Braun was useful to the American space program. But I agree that Shiro Ishii wasn't useful to the Americans, not to any extent that would justify sparing him, even disregarding moral concerns.

Jack Parsons and Theodore von Kármán were sufficient and were better human beings, both scientifically and morally.. and note that Jack Parsons was a whackjob, a sex fiend and a devil-worshipper?.

 

[Garrison]

Inspired from the following threads:

• Joseph Goebbels at Nuremberg?
• Heinrich Himmler at Nuremberg?

Your challenge should you choose to accept is to make your own scenario where the bastard has the hammer of justice served on him.

Easy enough, let Mossad find out where he is and extract him to face trial in Israel as they did with Eichmann.

 

[Gillan1220]

This may not have been your intent but there’s a chance this thread will be closed since it seems to be conducive to revenge fantasies as seen already. CalBear closed a similar thread about punishing Hitler last month for the same reason.

I specifically said justice as in war crimes trial, not revenge. I don't want revenge because I do not like that.

 

[RedSword12]

Jack Parsons and Theodore von Kármán were sufficient and were.

Ridiculous. Jack Parsons died in 1952, ostracized, well before the American space program grew in earnest. Theodore von Kármán died in 1963. Wernher von Braun made significant contributions to the American space program. Discounting him as useless to the program is plainly false. Being a German Nazi doesn't make a scientist's contributions suddenly null and void.

 

[McPherson]

Ridiculous. Jack Parsons died in 1952, ostracized, well before the American space program grew in earnest. Theodore von Kármán died in 1963. Wernher von Braun made significant contributions to the American space program. Discounting him as useless to the program is plainly false.

Those solid rocket boosters being strapped to the SLS as I write this reply are a direct result of Jack Parsons' work.

Theodore von Kármán invented the successful step rocket in American service, an achievement that von Braun never accomplished.

 

[RedSword12]

Those solid rocket boosters being strapped to the SLS as I write this reply are a direct result of Jack Parsons' work.

Theodore von Kármán invented the successful step rocket in American service, an achievement that von Braun never accomplished.

Other scientists' contributions to what we already know to be a large-scale collaboration of scientists does nothing in the way of disproving the general consensus that von Braun was useful to the American Space Program. To prove that von Braun was useless to the American Space Program, you would have to look at his every contribution and prove that every single one of them was useless.