AHC: Catholic Norway post reformation

To keep Norway officially Catholic you either need to avoid it being annexed by Denmark or keep Denmark from going Protestant. Popular Catholicism was surprisingly strong in Norway in otl mind, there are reports of Catholic or hybrid Catholicism being practiced until the 1920s.
 
To keep Norway officially Catholic you either need to avoid it being annexed by Denmark or keep Denmark from going Protestant. Popular Catholicism was surprisingly strong in Norway in otl mind, there are reports of Catholic or hybrid Catholicism being practiced until the 1920s.
What about Norway breaking of from Denmark during the counter-reformation?
 
Its really hard for norway to break free from denmark, there really is no powerbase in the country unlike with sweden, who had nobility, after the church is kicked out who will fight the king?
 
Its really hard for norway to break free from denmark, there really is no powerbase in the country unlike with sweden, who had nobility, after the church is kicked out who will fight the king?
Perhaps the church could lead the divorce.
 
Well let's imagine that John son of Christian II survives and succeed with support from his Habsburg relatives in gaining back Norway, so he become king of Norway, Christian III still end up in control of Denmark after his father Frederik I. Is this likely, not really, but it's possible, so that's our POD. Of course John II if Norway will have a lot of trouble, he will have to deal with a internal Protestant movement, potential rivals in the Church. He need to strengthen his position, if he marry late, a marriages with Mary Queen of Scots would have the greatest potential, as it would integrate two thinly populated minor states into a state which can rival Danish or Swedish population.

Linguistic it would make sense with Norwegian not being mostly replaced with Danish, but this is not given, without the Reformation and Lutheranism, literacy will be far lower, and there's unlikely to be a early standardization of Norwegian, which means that Danish writing and literature are likely to dominate even in TTL among the literate minority. In the longer run if Norway survive as a independent state, I think Janseism would likely have success in Norway (it seem the kind of doctrine fishermen likes). Norwegian surplus population would likely end up as mercenaries and settlers for the big Catholic powers of Europe. It could be pretty interesting to a few Norwegian speaking villages in Hungary by modern day. Potatoes are also likely to be introduced earlier to Norway, if they' re really lucky maybe Spanish sailors also introduce Quinoa.
 
Could the Catholics winning the 30 years war (maybe no Swedish intervention) split Norway from Denmark as revenge for their intervention in the war?
It was not really a Danish intervention so much as the Danish king, using his own money, acting as the Duke of Holstein. Also the elite in norway, as it was, is firmly lutheran by the 1620s.
 
Well let's imagine that John son of Christian II survives and succeed with support from his Habsburg relatives in gaining back Norway, so he become king of Norway, Christian III still end up in control of Denmark after his father Frederik I. Is this likely, not really, but it's possible, so that's our POD. Of course John II if Norway will have a lot of trouble, he will have to deal with a internal Protestant movement, potential rivals in the Church. He need to strengthen his position, if he marry late, a marriages with Mary Queen of Scots would have the greatest potential, as it would integrate two thinly populated minor states into a state which can rival Danish or Swedish population.

Linguistic it would make sense with Norwegian not being mostly replaced with Danish, but this is not given, without the Reformation and Lutheranism, literacy will be far lower, and there's unlikely to be a early standardization of Norwegian, which means that Danish writing and literature are likely to dominate even in TTL among the literate minority. In the longer run if Norway survive as a independent state, I think Janseism would likely have success in Norway (it seem the kind of doctrine fishermen likes). Norwegian surplus population would likely end up as mercenaries and settlers for the big Catholic powers of Europe. It could be pretty interesting to a few Norwegian speaking villages in Hungary by modern day. Potatoes are also likely to be introduced earlier to Norway, if they' re really lucky maybe Spanish sailors also introduce Quinoa.

Hmm maybe if he went to Oslo and not too the neatherlands in 23, the emperor pays for mercenaries from scotland. He is already married tought, to the sister of the emperor. Also Norwegian was not in otl, mostly replaced with Danish, and had a literary tradition from the early middle-ages, in Norwegian.
 
To expand upon the point made by @Jürgen:

In 1527, Christian II made an attempt on conquering Norway with an army of German mercenaries: strong winds scattered much of his fleet, which meant that most of his heavy siege artillery was lost at sea. Consequently, he could not take the strong fortresses of the south, despite receiving the acclamation of most of the Norwegian nobility, which meant he had to negotiate with his uncle and usurpator, Frederick. Negotiations that led to his imprisonment in OTL. Let's say his fleet is a tad bit more lucky and he secures all of Norway and in the ensuing confrontation with Gustav Vasa and Frederick I manages to maintain that control, then his son John might wind up as king of Catholic Norway. However, this presupposes a lot of hand waving such as Christian’s own Lutheran tendencies and the successful defence against two much stronger and inherent neighbours.
 
To expand upon the point made by @Jürgen:

In 1527, Christian II made an attempt on conquering Norway with an army of German mercenaries: strong winds scattered much of his fleet, which meant that most of his heavy siege artillery was lost at sea. Consequently, he could not take the strong fortresses of the south, despite receiving the acclamation of most of the Norwegian nobility, which meant he had to negotiate with his uncle and usurpator, Frederick. Negotiations that led to his imprisonment in OTL. Let's say his fleet is a tad bit more lucky and he secures all of Norway and in the ensuing confrontation with Gustav Vasa and Frederick I manages to maintain that control, then his son John might wind up as king of Catholic Norway. However, this presupposes a lot of hand waving such as Christian’s own Lutheran tendencies and the successful defence against two much stronger and inherent neighbours.

I have thought about and my conclusion have become that if Norway avoid a Danish reconquest early on, it's a rather good position to not be annexed later. It's hard for Sweden to conquer Norway, as the geography favour the Norwegians, and the moment the Danes have decided that Norway aren't worth the bother to reconquer, they're natural allies versus the Swedes (think the Auld Alliance just in Scandinavia). Norway will have some natural conflict with Sweden over Lapland. Denmark and Norway are also natural trading partners even if they belong to different religions.
 
I have thought about and my conclusion have become that if Norway avoid a Danish reconquest early on, it's a rather good position to not be annexed later. It's hard for Sweden to conquer Norway, as the geography favour the Norwegians, and the moment the Danes have decided that Norway aren't worth the bother to reconquer, they're natural allies versus the Swedes (think the Auld Alliance just in Scandinavia). Norway will have some natural conflict with Sweden over Lapland. Denmark and Norway are also natural trading partners even if they belong to different religions.

Actually Norway is pretty easy for Denmark and Sweden to conquer, as the core of the nation is Østlandet, is much much closer to Copenhagen than it is to the districts in the same country.

Conflicts over Lapland? No, its not worth much, and it will be not until the 1800s before anybody really lives away from the coast. The area of conflic will be along the coast of Skagerrak and Kattegat, Maybe hjemtland/ old east trønderlag.
 
Actually Norway is pretty easy for Denmark and Sweden to conquer, as the core of the nation is Østlandet, is much much closer to Copenhagen than it is to the districts in the same country.

Conflicts over Lapland? No, its not worth much, and it will be not until the 1800s before anybody really lives away from the coast. The area of conflic will be along the coast of Skagerrak and Kattegat, Maybe hjemtland/ old east trønderlag.

Norway are relative easy for Denmark to conquer, but for Sweden not really, the continued failures of Swedish invasions of Norway, while it was under Danish was in my view not accidental. While Sweden could likely brute force it through, the problem with that is that Denmark will always have a interesting in Norway not being Swedish, which mean that Denmark will force Sweden to have soldiers on other fronts.

As for Lapland, there was continued conflicts between Denmark and Sweden over this region. But yes Sweden will likely primarily also go after Bohuslen and Jämtland. While Norway will likely seek expansion in the north in conflicts it win, of course if Norway goes after the jackpot, it will seek to conquer Vestergötland, Dalsland and Värmland.
 
Norway are relative easy for Denmark to conquer, but for Sweden not really, the continued failures of Swedish invasions of Norway, while it was under Danish was in my view not accidental. While Sweden could likely brute force it through, the problem with that is that Denmark will always have a interesting in Norway not being Swedish, which mean that Denmark will force Sweden to have soldiers on other fronts.

The border is pretty porous, but you need naval dominance to take and hold up until the modern period when the railways solve it.

As for Lapland, there was continued conflicts between Denmark and Sweden over this region. But yes Sweden will likely primarily also go after Bohuslen and Jämtland. While Norway will likely seek expansion in the north in conflicts it win, of course if Norway goes after the jackpot, it will seek to conquer Vestergötland, Dalsland and Värmland.
Lapland?? You sure your not thinking about skåne and/or Småland? Lapland is inn country norther Sweden and Finnland, and is even today extremely lightly populate outside the industrial towns settled and built in the 19ch
 
Top