AHC: Catholic Norway post reformation

Lapland?? You sure your not thinking about skåne and/or Småland? Lapland is inn country norther Sweden and Finnland, and is even today extremely lightly populate outside the industrial towns settled and built in the 19ch
He probably meant Denmark-Norway competed for Lappland with Sweden.
 
Well let's imagine that John son of Christian II survives and succeed with support from his Habsburg relatives in gaining back Norway, so he become king of Norway, Christian III still end up in control of Denmark after his father Frederik I. Is this likely, not really, but it's possible, so that's our POD. Of course John II if Norway will have a lot of trouble, he will have to deal with a internal Protestant movement, potential rivals in the Church. He need to strengthen his position, if he marry late, a marriages with Mary Queen of Scots would have the greatest potential, as it would integrate two thinly populated minor states into a state which can rival Danish or Swedish population.
Is it possible that a peasant revolt could lead to Norwegian "independance"?

Would not a Scottish-Norwegian alliance be a done deal than England would be hostile towards Norway?
Linguistic it would make sense with Norwegian not being mostly replaced with Danish, but this is not given, without the Reformation and Lutheranism, literacy will be far lower, and there's unlikely to be a early standardization of Norwegian, which means that Danish writing and literature are likely to dominate even in TTL among the literate minority.
Norwegian could have been less influenced OTL had the founders adopted a Norwegian language based on the spoken language rather than squabble between 1) keeping Danish, 2) Norwegian-ification of Danish, 3) a Norwegian language based on Danish and 4) Old Norwegian. OTL even if the majority of Norwegians spoke dialects that were more similar to Old Norwegian than current Norwegian, the fordanska elite exercised more influence than their numbers would suggest.
In the longer run if Norway survive as a independent state, I think Janseism would likely have success in Norway (it seem the kind of doctrine
fishermen likes).
Why do dishermen like Jansenism?
Norwegian surplus population would likely end up as mercenaries and settlers for the big Catholic powers of Europe. It could be pretty interesting to a few Norwegian speaking villages in Hungary by modern day. Potatoes are also likely to be introduced earlier to Norway, if they' re really lucky maybe Spanish sailors also introduce Quinoa.
Most Norwegian settlers would probably go to Catholic Americas. Allthough due to Norwegian lingusitic kinship with English, a larger proportion of Norwegian catholics will move to North America(Canada and USA).

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1. Would Norway keep it's overseas territories or lose them as in OTL?
2. Would an alliance of a independant Norway and independant Denmark be stronger in a war against Sweden than the union of Denmark-Norway?
 
Could Christian II (if he avoids capture) get aid from his brother-in-law Charles V? If dependent on Charles he would have to stay a good Catholic.
 
The border is pretty porous, but you need naval dominance to take and hold up until the modern period when the railways solve it.


Lapland?? You sure your not thinking about skåne and/or Småland? Lapland is inn country norther Sweden and Finnland, and is even today extremely lightly populate outside the industrial towns settled and built in the 19ch

I'm Danish, I'm pretty much aware that Lapland aren't the place Emil is from or the region which lies just across the Sound. The reason there was these continued conflicts was over the right to tax the Sami (their fur trade was quite valued). The thing we value in a modern society, are not always the same thing people value in a pre-industrial society. As example in Denmark a forest wasn't taxed based on the amount of timber it could produce, but instead on the value of the pigs which could forage in it.
 
Is it possible that a peasant revolt could lead to Norwegian "independance"?

no

Would not a Scottish-Norwegian alliance be a done deal than England would be hostile towards Norway?

yes
Norwegian could have been less influenced OTL had the founders adopted a Norwegian language based on the spoken language rather than squabble between 1) keeping Danish, 2) Norwegian-ification of Danish, 3) a Norwegian language based on Danish and 4) Old Norwegian. OTL even if the majority of Norwegians spoke dialects that were more similar to Old Norwegian than current Norwegian, the fordanska elite exercised more influence than their numbers would suggest.

The point is that we will likely see a similar Danification of the elite, simply because the majority of the Norwegian population will stay illiterate and the literate minority will primarily use Danish literature.
Why do dishermen like Jansenism?

It's crypto-Calvinist Catholicism (much as Pietism was crypto-Calvinist Lutheranism), and the fishermen loves the hell and brimstone of Calvinism.

Most Norwegian settlers would probably go to Catholic Americas. Allthough due to Norwegian lingusitic kinship with English, a larger proportion of Norwegian catholics will move to North America(Canada and USA).

I was thinking earlier than that.
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1. Would Norway keep it's overseas territories or lose them as in OTL?

Keep them

2. Would an alliance of a independant Norway and independant Denmark be stronger in a war against Sweden than the union of Denmark-Norway?

That a complex question, first of all it was only with the 30YW that Sweden became stronger than Denmark-Norway, and I suspect we will see a similar balance. First a important point is that Danish state budget will not be much smaller, as in the pre-absolutist period the budget overwhelming build on the Sound Dues and the Danish crown domains. Norway on the other hand need to find new sources of funding and that may result in the sum state budget of both countries will be bigger than the state budget of the union of the two kingdoms. So the question lies likely between maybe to yes.
 
I'm Danish, I'm pretty much aware that Lapland aren't the place Emil is from or the region which lies just across the Sound. The reason there was these continued conflicts was over the right to tax the Sami (their fur trade was quite valued). The thing we value in a modern society, are not always the same thing people value in a pre-industrial society. As example in Denmark a forest wasn't taxed based on the amount of timber it could produce, but instead on the value of the pigs which could forage in it.

I know the trad was important, but that was done true small coastal settlements, there are copper cuts showing tromsø with palmtrees from the 1700`s, to show how remote the area was. The border with russia, to make an example was not sett until the 1820s in finmark. Its remote, its really really remote. Today, its quicker with plane, to go from Oslo to London, than from Tromsø to Alta.
 
To expand upon the point made by @Jürgen:

In 1527, Christian II made an attempt on conquering Norway with an army of German mercenaries: strong winds scattered much of his fleet, which meant that most of his heavy siege artillery was lost at sea. Consequently, he could not take the strong fortresses of the south, despite receiving the acclamation of most of the Norwegian nobility, which meant he had to negotiate with his uncle and usurpator, Frederick. Negotiations that led to his imprisonment in OTL. Let's say his fleet is a tad bit more lucky and he secures all of Norway and in the ensuing confrontation with Gustav Vasa and Frederick I manages to maintain that control, then his son John might wind up as king of Catholic Norway. However, this presupposes a lot of hand waving such as Christian’s own Lutheran tendencies and the successful defence against two much stronger and inherent neighbours.
What if Christian and his son John dies after Norwegian independance?
 
What if Christian and his son John dies after Norwegian independance?

The Norwegian council of the realm probably acclaims Dorothea OTL Countess Palatinate as queen. However, she would most likely have remained in the Netherlands under the care of her grandaunt Margaret of Austria as she would only have been 6-7 years old in 1527 (her mother had died in 1526). Depending on when Christian II and Hans II kick the bucket, Frederick I or his son might very well lay claim and conquer Norway in the chaos over the succession.
 
The Norwegian council of the realm probably acclaims Dorothea OTL Countess Palatinate as queen. However, she would most likely have remained in the Netherlands under the care of her grandaunt Margaret of Austria as she would only have been 6-7 years old in 1527 (her mother had died in 1526). Depending on when Christian II and Hans II kick the bucket, Frederick I or his son might very well lay claim and conquer Norway in the chaos over the succession.
So any possibility besides a monarchy is not likely?
 
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So any possibility besides a monarchy is not likely.

You mean like a republic? No, I don't think so. Norway, at this point in history, had been a hereditary monarchy since time immemorial, had no burgher class to speak of and had a weak aristocracy almost completely dominated by Danish fief-holders. I think the best you can hope for is some sort of noble republic (alike Sweden 1470-1520 or Denmark 1533-36), but the chances of this independent Norway lasting longer than a few years is already slim - without (however vague) Habsburg support it drops close to zero.
 
That would require Denmark to stay RC.

To keep Norway officially Catholic you either need to avoid it being annexed by Denmark or keep Denmark from going Protestant. Popular Catholicism was surprisingly strong in Norway in otl mind, there are reports of Catholic or hybrid Catholicism being practiced until the 1920s.

Ireland stayed mostly Catholic even though Britain became Protestant. IIRC it has been argued that the reason why Ireland remained Catholic while Norway (where Protestantism had miniscule support among the population) turned Protestant, was that the Irish clergy were in a much stronger position than their Norwegian counterpart.
 
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