Come up with history of this African American country with these borders by the end of 19th Century.
AHC: African American nation in the South in the 19th Century
- Thread starter Oba Cahokia
- Start date
Come up with history of this African American country with these borders by the end of 19th Century.
I kind of combined it with a Spanish empire survivig scenario, this could have happened due to butterflies with the 7 year war which affects the French revolution, but you can have this scenario happen without that. Also I got carried away and made a mini TL.
In 1742 the Spanish invasion of Georgia succeeds and Spain does well overall in the war. This leads to Spain annexing Georgia and South Carolina in the peace treaty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Georgia_(1742)
These states are added to the governership of Florida. The governor of Florida who had used escaped American slaves in his army proclaimed that all slaves in south carolina were free so long as they converted to catholicism, seeing the success that this policy already had in Florida. This triggers slave rebellions in the rest of the south who attach themselves to the Spanish army who free slaves where ever they go. At the end of the war these slaves end up being settled in the newly aquired regions and the small British population was expelled. This was done since Spain saw the importance of having a local population who would support the colony from any re invasion by the British and who could be more anti British than people who were just enslaved by them.
The colony of Florida gained a reputaion for being a safe haven for slaves leading the the vast majority of slaves who escaped their masters in the years after the war fleeing there. Many freedmen followed, wanting to find an area were they would be considered equals. This all greatly boosted the black population of the region. Many wealthier black people also started to travel to the colonies in order to purchase slaves in order to take them back to Georgia so that they could be freed. The population at first was small but expanded due to those efforts and due to the high birthrate of the region. This lead to a rapid settlement of the lands that were taken, with new towns and cities being created, being populated by blacks. The population got so high that people started to move west, leading to colonisation of Alabama. The expansion west would be aided greatly by the Spanish aquisition of Lousianna from their allies in France. Though the expansion west had some problems, including conflicts with the native Americans over land, there were of course some wars and massacres but the black people did not have the same racial idealogy that the whites had, this lead to more intermixing with the native population with friendly tribes even creating their own towns which would be recognised by the government. By 1810 black settlements had reached Louisianna although were concentrated in the east. Over this period, there were many clashes with the British, with some groups of black people forming millitias to free slaves from the north, which was not approved of by the government, for fear of causing war with Britain. There were also incidents of slave owners crossing the border, looking for their escaped slaves. An incident like that actually almost caused a war between the two powers in 1770.
Over time the region gained more independance from Spain due to the reforms of the 1830s until in the 1850s the first black governor gained power, by this time black settlers had spread all the way to the border with Texas. The nation would be named Montiania after the first Spanish governor of the region, who was credited with freeing the slaves and defeating the British in Georgia. Montiania would still remain apart of the Spanish commonwealth and recieved protection from Spain and was apart of its special trade zone. English was the main language but Spanish was a widely used second language, French was also spoken in Lousianna. It was 70% fully black with 8% of its population being mixed native and black, 10% being fully native and 5% being white 4% mixed black and white and native and white being the last 3%.
In 1742 the Spanish invasion of Georgia succeeds and Spain does well overall in the war. This leads to Spain annexing Georgia and South Carolina in the peace treaty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Georgia_(1742)
These states are added to the governership of Florida. The governor of Florida who had used escaped American slaves in his army proclaimed that all slaves in south carolina were free so long as they converted to catholicism, seeing the success that this policy already had in Florida. This triggers slave rebellions in the rest of the south who attach themselves to the Spanish army who free slaves where ever they go. At the end of the war these slaves end up being settled in the newly aquired regions and the small British population was expelled. This was done since Spain saw the importance of having a local population who would support the colony from any re invasion by the British and who could be more anti British than people who were just enslaved by them.
The colony of Florida gained a reputaion for being a safe haven for slaves leading the the vast majority of slaves who escaped their masters in the years after the war fleeing there. Many freedmen followed, wanting to find an area were they would be considered equals. This all greatly boosted the black population of the region. Many wealthier black people also started to travel to the colonies in order to purchase slaves in order to take them back to Georgia so that they could be freed. The population at first was small but expanded due to those efforts and due to the high birthrate of the region. This lead to a rapid settlement of the lands that were taken, with new towns and cities being created, being populated by blacks. The population got so high that people started to move west, leading to colonisation of Alabama. The expansion west would be aided greatly by the Spanish aquisition of Lousianna from their allies in France. Though the expansion west had some problems, including conflicts with the native Americans over land, there were of course some wars and massacres but the black people did not have the same racial idealogy that the whites had, this lead to more intermixing with the native population with friendly tribes even creating their own towns which would be recognised by the government. By 1810 black settlements had reached Louisianna although were concentrated in the east. Over this period, there were many clashes with the British, with some groups of black people forming millitias to free slaves from the north, which was not approved of by the government, for fear of causing war with Britain. There were also incidents of slave owners crossing the border, looking for their escaped slaves. An incident like that actually almost caused a war between the two powers in 1770.
Over time the region gained more independance from Spain due to the reforms of the 1830s until in the 1850s the first black governor gained power, by this time black settlers had spread all the way to the border with Texas. The nation would be named Montiania after the first Spanish governor of the region, who was credited with freeing the slaves and defeating the British in Georgia. Montiania would still remain apart of the Spanish commonwealth and recieved protection from Spain and was apart of its special trade zone. English was the main language but Spanish was a widely used second language, French was also spoken in Lousianna. It was 70% fully black with 8% of its population being mixed native and black, 10% being fully native and 5% being white 4% mixed black and white and native and white being the last 3%.
This is awesome dude!
Edit: Like I really want read a timeline on this now!
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Honestly... I see very possible. If you do a Long TL about that i support you very strong. Also i find this
In relation to @Fatt Shea 's scenario, I recently searched "African American flags" and clicked this Essence link; the principal problem that I saw is that these flags were created recently (20th and 21st century).
Good idea! The confederacy wins and remains independent with the proposed borders. But they suffer horrible losses attaining it and barely get any immigration while the number of slaves is growing. This culminates in a successfull slave revolt that wins and takes over the country. In face of the defeat most whites flee the country before the victorious ex-slave armies (and the not small amount of violence towards the slavers). The US - still sore over their loss - decides to remain neutral (they are actually giving a lot of weapons to the rebels) though after a while humanitarian aid starts flowing and they start helping the whites flee and demand that the ethnic cleansing stops. After the victorious revolution and with a very big chunk of the white population having fled a new federal country is created and order restored by the leaders of the ex-slaves.
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there is huge pod, maybe have less settlers, more slaves, more intermarrying of blacks and whites. Bigger mulatto/mixed race freedman population. White people like free their mixed race children and their mothers.
Where by the time of independence, most of the non slaves are like mixed race, with some whites, as like its normalized to do so, mainly across the elites.
I'm thinking like what happened in Haiti, as like it was very common for whites to marry to freedmen families, likewise to the freedmen to white families.
Then they became independent.
Where by the time of independence, most of the non slaves are like mixed race, with some whites, as like its normalized to do so, mainly across the elites.
I'm thinking like what happened in Haiti, as like it was very common for whites to marry to freedmen families, likewise to the freedmen to white families.
Then they became independent.
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Thanks.. maybe I'll make one
Nice
It might be based on the Spanish flag or the Kongo flag since there were recent catholic rebels from Kongo in that area https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stono_Rebellion
Also guys if I make it a full TL what do you think I should call it? I'm thinking I'll do it since I have the time now
Would such an idea have been possible in an altered butterfly net form beginning with a POD of Texas being admitted into the US slightly earlier (in early-1844 instead of late-1845) and its later impact on internal population migration patterns within the US?
The above results in Sam Houston winning the 1844 and 1848 elections with James Polk as his running mate, whereby the American-Mexican boundary ended up following the real-life 1848 Houston line annexing much of northern Mexico including all of Baja California with Texas initially growing larger sometime after being admitted into the union.
That would potentially lay the groundwork for a de facto African-American nation to either form in the aftermath of the ACW from Louisiana due to pre-existing (?) incentives for people to settle into the newly conquered areas or possibly given the POD be established in the relatively sparsely populated areas of northeast Mexico next to Texas up to Tampico.
The above results in Sam Houston winning the 1844 and 1848 elections with James Polk as his running mate, whereby the American-Mexican boundary ended up following the real-life 1848 Houston line annexing much of northern Mexico including all of Baja California with Texas initially growing larger sometime after being admitted into the union.
That would potentially lay the groundwork for a de facto African-American nation to either form in the aftermath of the ACW from Louisiana due to pre-existing (?) incentives for people to settle into the newly conquered areas or possibly given the POD be established in the relatively sparsely populated areas of northeast Mexico next to Texas up to Tampico.
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Really, the Spain related pre-independence ones are the only ones with a trace of plausibility, especially with ambitions of controlling that much land. (those exact borders would be extremely unlikely).
Any ambition for this outcome post-USA independence is a pipedream is you're thinking in terms of plausible scenarios. Bring in ASBs, and you can do anything you want.
Any ambition for this outcome post-USA independence is a pipedream is you're thinking in terms of plausible scenarios. Bring in ASBs, and you can do anything you want.
TBH, this is a genuinely interesting idea, but.....if such a country were to exist with a POD in the mid-19th Century, it would most likely only come after a much longer and/or more devastating Civil War.....and maybe with things like pro-slavery extremists committing terrorist attacks on Northern and/or anti-slavery border state civilians for example, and even then it wouldn't be that large in all relative likelihood-it'd likely be mainly restricted to the area known as the "Black Belt" IOTL, with adjustment either including some parts of it going back to the U.S.A. or some adjacent areas being added on.
This is actually a pretty decent write up! Unlikely, yes, but this could potentially be plausible-if you do do a full TL on this, I'd be genuinely interested to see what comes of that, for what it's worth.
To be fair, a geographic border-I assume you mean watersheds, etc.-could be agreed upon(though it wouldn't necessarily be up to the new state themselves-perhaps the U.S. government would advocate for that instead).....but you sure about ethnic borders? I'm not sure that's even possible without some more radical changes, to be quite honest.
Not necessarily in every case. If the POD is far back enough, like sometime in the late 17th Century/early 18th Century, then yeah, to be fair, that could be so in at least some cases.
Well, you wouldn't need actual ASBs for this, though. Might really stretch plausibility, sure, but hardly an impossibility.
This is actually a pretty decent write up! Unlikely, yes, but this could potentially be plausible-if you do do a full TL on this, I'd be genuinely interested to see what comes of that, for what it's worth.
To be fair, a geographic border-I assume you mean watersheds, etc.-could be agreed upon(though it wouldn't necessarily be up to the new state themselves-perhaps the U.S. government would advocate for that instead).....but you sure about ethnic borders? I'm not sure that's even possible without some more radical changes, to be quite honest.
Not necessarily in every case. If the POD is far back enough, like sometime in the late 17th Century/early 18th Century, then yeah, to be fair, that could be so in at least some cases.
Well, you wouldn't need actual ASBs for this, though. Might really stretch plausibility, sure, but hardly an impossibility.