After 1870 : Second Empire Vignettes

Empress Eugénie and in effective continuation of Franco-British negotiations of Napoléon IV's betrothal to Princess Beatrice during the Regency.
*sigh*
Napoléon IV and Beatrice were never engaged, never planned to get engaged, and nobody- not even their mamas- wanted them to get married.

Eugènie's choice of bride for her son was another Spaniard, namely the Infanta Pilar, daughter of Queen Isabel II. Pilar had the backing of Isabel, the pope, the comte de Chambord and given that she had been educated in France rather than in Spain, she was more "palatable" to most because she was "practically a Frenchwoman". Now, obviously, there will be opposition to Pilar, but to assume that somehow there would be less opposition to the Protestant English Beatrice seems a bit much.

That's assuming, of course, that there's no objections in England about a princess marrying a Catholic, and worse, a Bonaparte "two generations removed from obscurity in Corsica" (as the London Times published at the time) whose aunt happens to be married to a male-line descendant of James II?
 
In the case of Prussia not taking Alsace, I think it would see an interesting development in the region over time. If France continues their centralisation, whereas Germany remains federal, it might cause a movement in Alsace to join Germany as a full federal state, given how much the Alsatians hated the Parisian focus taken by France.
Would Napoleon IV implement the same policies as the Third Republic?
Most of the Bonapartist support came from the countryside so I doubt he would take such a pro-urban centers approach.
 
Would Napoleon IV implement the same policies as the Third Republic?
Most of the Bonapartist support came from the countryside so I doubt he would take such a pro-urban centers approach.
True, but centralisation in France predates the Third Republic and given the important of Paris, which would only increase, I don't see such a progression as illogical. It was also a popular move in the time generally
 
True, but centralisation in France predates the Third Republic and given the important of Paris, which would only increase, I don't see such a progression as illogical. It was also a popular move in the time generally
Yes, but if Napoleon IV is competent (which cannot be predicted) he would still try to involve the countryside into politics to counter the urban centers' power and to not destroy his popularity.
 
Yes, but if Napoleon IV is competent (which cannot be predicted) he would still try to involve the countryside into politics to counter the urban centers' power and to not destroy his popularity.
I think it depends on how you look at it. One could also make the argument of supporting the urban centers so as to now lose their (wealthier) support opposite the less useful peasants. Especially with industrialisation being the child of the big cities
 
I think it depends on how you look at it. One could also make the argument of supporting the urban centers so as to not lose their (wealthier) support opposite the less useful peasants. Especially with industrialization being the child of the big cities
Not preferring the countryside over the cities more like not neglecting the countryside to get support from there, the people in the cities were always more anti-Imperialist than the countryside so you should try to not lose your support in the countryside. Obviously you will have to gain support from the people in the cities which should IMO be achieved by having some socialist policies.

Btw Communism might not exist or at least would be different as Karl Marx took inspiration from the ideas of the Paris Commune
 
Btw Communism might not exist or at least would be different as Karl Marx took inspiration from the ideas of the Paris Commune

Speaking of which, this is a video on the Paris Commune that debunks myths about it and notes that Marx took more inspiration from how it was crushed than how it functioned during its short existence.
 
He was very popular in the countryside, in the cities a little bit less because he outlawed democracy but he still completely destroyed the Republicans in the Referendums, he made democratic reforms because he was worried about his popularity in urban centers.
The countryside was conservative leaning, if they had not gone for an Emperor, they'd have gone for a King. As for the cities, they were always protesting whoever was in charge.
Then, saying Napoléon III destroyed the Republicans would be ignoring how fast and smooth the collapse of the Empire and the transition to a Republican regime was in 1870 and its acceptation. The referendum of 1870 gave a false impression of the regime's strength, it was more of hickup; the trend of the 1860s tended towards increasing political agitation. The emperor was increasingly sick and the political liberalization only emboldened the opponents of the regime, so much so that the 1869 elections were actually contested instead of being a rubber stamp.
As for the political reforms, these were made out of a sense that if the Empire was to survive him, Napoléon III had to enlarge his base of support. Coming into the 1860s, he could only reliably count on the Army's loyalty to maintain the status quo; his previous policies had put him at odds with his base of support within the Catholic Church (due to his Italian policies) and the business establishment. One has just to see that a military defeat, combined with the army's passivity (Trochu's in particular) was enough to see Napoléon III and the regime gone, and gone for good because there was noone willing to force his return on the throne (the army was fine with an Orleanist restoration too).

Well they still would have to push the Germans back enough so that they start to doubt about victory and then yes Bismarck could accept a peace deal where he doesn't take Alsace
My understanding is that he did not want to take it in the first place because he rightly expected it to earn France's lasting enemity, but between the French pursuing the war and the hardliners in his own side, he had to concede to it.

*sigh*
Napoléon IV and Beatrice were never engaged, never planned to get engaged, and nobody- not even their mamas- wanted them to get married.

Eugènie's choice of bride for her son was another Spaniard, namely the Infanta Pilar, daughter of Queen Isabel II. Pilar had the backing of Isabel, the pope, the comte de Chambord and given that she had been educated in France rather than in Spain, she was more "palatable" to most because she was "practically a Frenchwoman". Now, obviously, there will be opposition to Pilar, but to assume that somehow there would be less opposition to the Protestant English Beatrice seems a bit much.

That's assuming, of course, that there's no objections in England about a princess marrying a Catholic, and worse, a Bonaparte "two generations removed from obscurity in Corsica" (as the London Times published at the time) whose aunt happens to be married to a male-line descendant of James II?
Religion did not prevent Victoria Eugénie from marrying Alfonso XIII and converting.

Then, between OTL and TTL, there is a big difference between marrying an Emperor and an exiled prince, or one dead before anything could be said or done.
EDIT: Besides, it seems from the description of Beatrice's reaction to the Prince Imperial's death in Queen Victoria's diary was emotionally attached in some way to him...
 
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The countryside was conservative leaning, if they had not gone for an Emperor, they'd have gone for a King. As for the cities, they were always protesting whoever was in charge.
Then, saying Napoléon III destroyed the Republicans would be ignoring how fast and smooth the collapse of the Empire and the transition to a Republican regime was in 1870 and its acceptation. The referendum of 1870 gave a false impression of the regime's strength, it was more of hickup; the trend of the 1860s tended towards increasing political agitation. The emperor was increasingly sick and the political liberalization only emboldened the opponents of the regime, so much so that the 1869 elections were actually contested instead of being a rubber stamp.
As for the political reforms, these were made out of a sense that if the Empire was to survive him, Napoléon III had to enlarge his base of support. Coming into the 1860s, he could only reliably count on the Army's loyalty to maintain the status quo; his previous policies had put him at odds with his base of support within the Catholic Church (due to his Italian policies) and the business establishment. One has just to see that a military defeat, combined with the army's passivity (Trochu's in particular) was enough to see Napoléon III and the regime gone, and gone for good because there was none willing to force his return on the throne (the army was fine with an Orléanist restoration too).
The Empire would've survived if it wasn't for the Franco-Prussian War, while Napoleon III didn't do everything perfectly and had people who would prefer not be under his rule he didn't screw up anything important enough to get overthrown by a revolution like the Bourbons which is already a big success when you are in France.
My understanding is that he did not want to take it in the first place because he rightly expected it to earn France's lasting enemity, but between the French pursuing the war and the hardliners in his own side, he had to concede to it.
What I was saying is that you need to seriously start fighting back, only stopping the Prussian armies at Paris won't be enough as OTL peace deal was very mild for the French side; they need to make the Prussians seriously doubt about their victory to not lose any territory
 
What I was saying is that you need to seriously start fighting back, only stopping the Prussian armies at Paris won't be enough as OTL peace deal was very mild for the French side; they need to make the Prussians seriously doubt about their victory to not lose any territory
I mean I wouldn't call it "very mild", they lost a major bit of territory plus huge reparations and were occupied for a while.

The problem with a stalemate is that it would cause huge instability for both sides, as it is a big prestige blow. The Germans could survive it because of the spin as a defensive war, but for the French thay would be a huge prestige blow. Plus a unified Germany which is an even greater threat
 
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I mean I wouldn't call it "very mild", they lost a major bit of territory plus huge reparations and were occupied for a while.
Most of Northern France was occupied, the Germans could've demanded much more if they wanted, as long as this doesn't threaten the balance of power too much (territories such as Cochinchina could very well have fallen in German hands).
The problem with a stalemate is that it would cause huge instability for both sides, as it is a big prestige blow. The Germans could survive it because of the spin as a defensive war, but for the French they would be a huge prestige blow. Plus a unified Germany which is an even greater threat
The Germans wouldn't have much problems, most of the fighting didn't happen on their territory and the Germans don't have a big prestige blow as they occupied a seizable part of one of the most powerful states in Europe and managed to unify themselves.
France might have a few more problems but they didn't lose, they didn't have a Paris Commune and don't end up in the unstable Third French Republic; so the Second French Empire probably survives; prestige would be lost but not nearly as much as OTL. The French just fought a unified Germany, it may be called the Franco-Prussian war but the armies of the other German states participated on the Prussian side.

The two states wouldn't hate themselves as much as OTL, there would be friction but the French wouldn't be animated by revanchism (or at least not as much) and Germany achieved its main goal: unification.
 
A Tale of Two Courts
1024px-Monet_paris_marmottan_strand_trouville.jpg

" ... by most historians unfairly characterized as dominated by women, but for the rancid and lurid gossips of radical papers such as those of Jules Valles or Henri Rochefort to find a receptive audience, or for Emile Zola to write 'A Tale of Two Courts' into his Rougon-Macquart series around the subject spoke to the contemporary public perception of the early years of Napoléon IV's reign.

At one end of this legend lied the role of Dowager Empress Eugénie and the very much real power she had held. At the other end, Empress Beatrice and the role she unintentionally played in the downfall of her stepmother. A legend that told a two decades long story of intrigues at court and political schemes.

The prologue of this tale took place in 1872, in the wake of the Prince Impérial's sixteenth birthday, when Empress Eugénie undertook the arduous task of finding her son a bride. Napoléon III's anglophilia and Eugénie's personal friendship with Queen Victoria designated her youngest daughter, Princess Beatrice, as the natural, desirable choice. If the issue of religion may have complicated negotiations, the most important hurdle to the young couple becoming a reality was Queen Victoria's own attachment to her daughter. In 1872 thus, while it had been widely expected Napoléon Eugène would attend Saint-Cyr, he was instead admitted to the Royal Military Academy of Woolwich, and in close proximity to his bride to be.

It was during those almost two years of English life that the small town of Trouville on the coast of Normandy began to appear in the legend. A frequent guest of Queen Victoria at Osborne House, the Prince and the Princess were often treated there by Empress Eugénie's "impromptu" visits. The prince mother's had disposed of a villa in Trouville whose situation right across the Isle of Wight and just a few hours of train ride away from Paris, had made it a perfect spot to undertake such visits. Eugénie had already turned Biarritz, not long ago a simple little fishing village, into the place to be for European royalty, and slowly, her visits to Osborne House showered Trouville with the same fortunes.

Trouville's chance would then find another turn with the Osborne House Agreement when, in the first days of 1874, Victoria finally caved in to the passion of her daughter for the young Emperor of the French. One of the key concessions that Eugénie assented to was for Beatrice to continue those cross channel visits. Trouville had thus become Beatrice's like Biarritz had been Eugénie's. Innocently enough, the seeds were planted for the war of influence that would be waged around Napoléon IV for the next two decades, between Eugénie's Court of Biarritz, and Beatrice's Court of Trouville.

Napoléon IV, to be sure, was not his mother's puppet like radicals would tell in their papers. At least not after March 16th, 1874, when Napoléon IV and Béatrice were married and coronated Emperor and Empress of the French. The Dowager Empress' regency was at an end, but her influence stayed strong, and her son remained deferential to her many advices and kept 'her' ministers in place.
Beatrice meanwhile was used to stay aloof from politics in a typical British fashion, and keep focused on her marriage and her frequent trips to Trouville. But if the young Empress herself never thought of challenging the Dowager Empress, the same could not be said of those who surrounded her.

In the bagages of Beatrice had arrived to Paris Princess Mary Adelaid, the new Empress' Grande Maîtresse, that is the senior lady-in-waiting of her household. Queen Victoria had see to it that her daughter would have proper company in Paris and entrusted the task to her cousin, and the Duchess of Teck and her husband, known for their extravagant and luxurious lifestyle, always cash-strapped, were very much happy to oblige. And true to their profligate character, emboldened by their position at court, they began to animate the Parisian society. In a city that had become used to the austerity of Eugénie's court, the parties thrown by the Duchess of Teck had harkened back to the festive spirit that had characterized Napoléon III's early reign, in the euphoria following the victory over China, these marked the return of a "joie de vivre" in French social life and were later considered as one of the starting points of the "Belle Epoque".

Disdained by the Dowager Empress, the joyful atmosphere of Beatrice's court nevertheless constitued the first break in her hegemony over French politics. For over a century, social gatherings had in France often doubled as political ones, and the court of the young Empress was no exception. Among the crowds of those who found more comfort in the Duchess of Teck's parties than at Eugénie's austere and devout court, were many prominent political figures who had not found favor and hoped to reach the Emperor through his young wife. Many of the liberal and reformist followers of Prince Napoléon, frustrated by his impetuous and unpolitical character, had found trips to Trouville much better and rewarding opportunities. More importantly though, a number of right wing, more conservative figures also frequented the Empress' circles and frequently came across their liberal colleagues. The Duchess of Magenta for instance, who brought with along her husband, Marshal de MacMahon, still supreme in his grip over the Imperial Army, the Duchess of Alençon, sister to Empress Elizabeth of Austria but more importantly for French politics, niece of the Duke of Aumale, one of the most important leaders of the Orleans family.

And yet, among all the names flying around Beatrice, the most consequential one would be that of a young and inconspicuous lady-in-waiting in her household. The Duchess of Teck, for all her extravagance was totally uninterested in politics and did not think of the political inclinations of whoever she invited or met, which contributed to the distorted view Eugénie held on her and Beatrice. But hiding behind the "Grosse Maitresse" (fat mistress) as Eugénie sometimes derided her in private, was a more dangerous, ambitious woman, Anne de Rochechouart de Mortemart. Unlike the Grande Maîtresse, the young Duchess of Uzes, and soon to be widow, was very much a political creature, and she did not think twice about trying her hand at it.

It was thus at Dowager Empress Eugénie's great disadvantage that developed under her nose a rival court and that she severly underestimated it until it was too late. For, by the time the knives were out, Napoléon IV, all devout and devoted son he was, was also among those who, when it was time to escape the agitation and insufferable pressure of Parisian life, preferred the serenity of Trouville to the beaches of Biarritz, and with only four hours of train in between, it was not rare that the Emperor would take an impromptu day off on the Norman coast, or whole weekends... "
 
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Amazing work! Very happy with the marriage bewteen Napoleon IV and Beatrice. Intrigue is very mcuh expected, hopefully Napoleon will do much to stablize his family with the prestige and legitimazy such a match brings and liberlize france
 
Amazing work! Very happy with the marriage bewteen Napoleon IV and Beatrice. Intrigue is very mcuh expected, hopefully Napoleon will do much to stablize his family with the prestige and legitimazy such a match brings and liberlize france
Thanks. Further intrigues to follow though...
 
Great work, the unintentional cold war between Empress Eugénie and Empress Beatrice is very entertaining, I imagine the two giving backhanded compliments and Napoleon IV is just oblivious to it all 🤣🤣🤣. I hope Napoleon and Beatrice have a large and happy family. Would love to see what Napoleon IV does throughout the latter 19th Century. Keep up the good work 👍👍👍.
 
Great work, the unintentional cold war between Empress Eugénie and Empress Beatrice is very entertaining, I imagine the two giving backhanded compliments and Napoleon IV is just oblivious to it all 🤣🤣🤣
Thanks.

In a sense, Beatrice is as oblivious to it as her husband is. It's a case of "they are at war but neither know it yet". Wait for the detonation in the next update...
 
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Anne de Rochechouart de Mortemart seems to have been progressive by the standards of the time, as well as being a polymath. This should get interesting.
Her profile was too interesting to keep her out of the storyline. Also, one would note that another Rochechouart had made herself a name in the days of Louis XIV, a certain Madame de Montespan...
 
Wait for the detonation in the next update...
The detonation might not be for the next update as it's becoming necessary I split the next vignette into three or four different chapters, so I can expand further on the background of a tumultuous ride that will bring us to the mid 1880s.
 
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