A Red Dawn: American Revolution and Rebirth

[Aranfan]

You seem to be missing a footnote Jello.

Interesting, I also wonder where the Left Democrats went.


I do wonder how the Anarchist movement is doing. Carson seems to have gone to the Democratic Republican Party, but I doubt most of the anarchists even vote. They would more prefer a strong grassroots movement.

 

[BlahBlahBlah]

So what kind of support does each party have? What percentage of the populace supports which party?
And I'd probably be with Socialist Party, maybe the SEU if I was feeling adventurous. I have friends who'd certainly be with the SEU.

 

[Room 101]

Great update. I'd most likely be a SEU guy.

 

[Aelita]

Very interesting. I'm having a hard time figuring out where I would fit, exactly. A Political Compass-esque quiz for the politics of the UASR would be very interesting in that regard...care if I make one, Jello?

And are the Left Democrats gone by 2009?

Oh shit...

I can't believe I missed them...

I'll get back to you on this.

And go ahead.

 

[Teleology]

I'm glad that you didn't just shift the "right-left" spectrum further left but in fact used early Soviet style classifications; where you have central planning as center-communism and then the peasant right-communism and Trotskyite left communism.

Of course that was on more cultural issues than economic I guess; but it fits this system of left socialism (union democracy/syndicalism), center socialism (central planning), and then traditional Rightist capitalist measures.

I find the versimilitude in the idea that the Progressives are more economically communist (central planning, autarky), while the diehard international revolution, bring the capitalists to their knees Socialists are for syndicates controlling their own activity and for free trade among the socialist bloc.

The Social Ecologists thoroughly complicate the matter even more, as I imagine the Left Democrats (IIRC, for either ProgLab or Socialist economics but against the cultural revolution type social mores; and probably more successful at socially conservative measures than the capitalistic DemReps I would wager) probably do as well.

The idea of fully fledged Eco-Socialism and Christian-Socialism is a very fun concept to speculate on.

 

[Nucleic Acids]

I just found this thread a couple of days ago, and I have to say it is shaping up to be one of my all time favorites on this forum.

And if you don't mind, in later periods will you involve Hubert Humphrey? I've always liked the guy, and I hope he'll be around to have a career ITTL as well.

 

[anon_user]

I'm curious as to what happens with Argentina in TTL. I wonder if Perón ends up taking a pro-UASR stance? He could play up the anti-British and anti-imperialist angle, and even has a model of sorts (in the Trinitarian church) for how to better peronize Catholicism. Of course, that assumes he gets into power...
On that note, I wonder how South America is handling the aftermath of the Second American Revolution, and, for that matter, integralist Brazil.

Great timeline so far!

 

[TNF]

On a second look through, I think I'm somewhere lodged between the Socialists and the Social Ecologists, leaning more heavily toward the former than the latter.

 

[President Al Bundy]

If I was American ITTL, I would definitely side with the DRP. I agree with them on most issues, and they don't seem to be run by leftist "dreamers"

But legalized drugs mean, that there won't be a TTL version of Scarface or any mafia-related movie that deals with drugs (Most notably Goodfellas) .

 

[eschaton]

But legalized drugs mean, that there won't be a TTL version of Scarface or any mafia-related movie that deals with drugs (Most notably Goodfellas) .

True, but there will be a *huge* base for organized crime. I'd see its role in the UASR to essentially be provisioning of capitalist-produced products. Presumably while products made by the UASR (and socialist allies) will in some cases be cost competitive with those of the capitalist world, in many cases they won't be able to compete with the low cost of exploited labor. In order to keep the national economy afloat, some trade restrictions with capitalist nations will have to remain (although, they needn't be 100%). The role of the "mafia" ITTL will be to smuggle in and provision those goods to willing customers - with a profit added on of course.

Edit: And morally speaking, ITTL, it will be seen as just as bad, if not worse, than the drug dealing, prostitution, extortion, and other activities mobs are involved in IOTL.

 

[Aranfan]

And are the Left Democrats gone by 2009?

I would find it hilarious if the DRP survived while the Left Democrats didn't.

I do wonder what the DRP's position on cooperatives are though. As well as what stance the various parties take on so called "intellectual property".

 

[Manfr]

Proud supporter of the Socialist Party !

BTW, what has happened to Socialdemocratic parties worldwide ? Is the Socialist International around ?

 

[wolf_brother]

I don't see why there are "hard drugs" such as heroin or PCP, or at least why they are considered recreational drugs when cannabis and alcohol are legal. That's going to several depress the market for recreational drugs. You don't see people out on the street drinking mouthwash to get drunk when they can simply go to basically any store and get liquor.

With that being said, even if such drugs had been created in this TL, and even if there was a market for them, I don't understand why the USAR would legalize them. Progressive social mores are one thing, but there's a world of different between alcohol or even cannabis and PCP, meth, heroin, etc.

 

[isnotcrow]

In this TL heroin and PCP are most likely still used for their original purposes. While as it said there is still usage for the wrong reason and it appears it is being fought with intervention and education instead of prohibition. As to cannabis I like the age of 18 for legal use and I hope to see that's it's other purposes besides recreational use are in full swing namely bio-fuel and medicine. And Jello I'd like to see how punk music comes into the scene in this timeline. Also I'm exciting to see that WWII weapons dossier.

 

[Jaydoh]

I don't see why there are "hard drugs" such as heroin or PCP, or at least why they are considered recreational drugs when cannabis and alcohol are legal. That's going to several depress the market for recreational drugs. You don't see people out on the street drinking mouthwash to get drunk when they can simply go to basically any store and get liquor.

But you do see people drink beer when they could otherwise easily be drinking hard liquor. Just because people CAN consume something stronger doesn't necessarily mean they'll WANT to consume something stronger.

 

[Spengler]

A basic election primer, circa 2009


Socialist Party
Party Leader: Lisa Edelstein
Secretary-General: David McReynolds
Founded: 1946
Ideology: International socialism, council communism
Political Position: Left (UASR) Ultra Left (International)
International Affiliation: Communist International
Official Color: Red
Youth Wing: Youth Vanguard
Party Newspaper:Appeal to Reason

Is this by any means the same one who is on House?

 

[Jaydoh]

Is this by any means the same one who is on House?

I'd imagine so, as every other Party Leader or Secretary-General is a real person (make note of the Democratic-Republican Secretary-General).

 

[Spengler]

Well I think I now know who my vote would go for.

 

[Aelita]

I don't see why there are "hard drugs" such as heroin or PCP, or at least why they are considered recreational drugs when cannabis and alcohol are legal. That's going to several depress the market for recreational drugs. You don't see people out on the street drinking mouthwash to get drunk when they can simply go to basically any store and get liquor.

With that being said, even if such drugs had been created in this TL, and even if there was a market for them, I don't understand why the USAR would legalize them. Progressive social mores are one thing, but there's a world of different between alcohol or even cannabis and PCP, meth, heroin, etc.

They're not considered recreational drugs, and they're not in the strictest sense legal either. Drugs like PCP, methamphetamines, opiates etc., are strictly controlled. While mere possession isn't a crime, the unlicensed production, sale or distribution of them is a crime.

But they do have legitimate uses. PCP, for example, can be used as a veterinary anesthetic. Meth is used by the military to insure mission-critical personal stay awake and don't crash million dollar jets due to fatigue on long missions. Opiates are pretty standard medical painkillers.

Is this by any means the same one who is on House?

Indeed it is.

 

[Aranfan]

Interesting.


I would be very interested to see the breakdown of the Houses. How much support the various parties get.