A Most Glorious Revolution: Savoyard Spain

[morbidteaparty]

"Looking for a democratic monarch in Europe is like looking for an atheist in heaven." (General Juan Prim, on his search for a monarch willing to be democratically elected.)

"The Spanish people are ungovernable." (King Amadeus I on the event of his abdication in 1873.)


30 May 1867

The day was set in brilliant sunlight, the smell of roses and orange blossom permeating everything. The marriage ceremony had been conducted in an orderly fashion: King Victor Emmanuel allowed himself a small smile. The Duke of Aosta, his second son was married on his twenty-second birthday. He had talked sense into his son at the last the year before: the foolish plan to marry the Maria girl [1] lay on the ashes. Instead he was marrying a princess, indeed one who had connections to the Prussian royal family. [2] The girl was older than his son, but this was an advantage the king mused: the boy needed a steady hand next to him after all, and while she certainly wasn't the most beautiful. the girl possessed an astute intelligence. His smile grew wider. Nothing could mar the day. [3]

Amadeus of Savoy, Duke of Aosta

Princess Marie of the Netherlands​

The Search for a Crowned Democrat

Following the queen's abdication and retirement, the messy business of directing revolutionary spirit into something coherent took hold of the fragile coalition that had deposed the Bourbon's for the last time. [4] The liberals, moderates and republicans who had so virulently opposed the Isabelline governments, found themselves hard pressed to select a monarch: the suggestion that the former dictator Baldomero Espartero could form his own dynasty was rejected out of hand by almost everyone, Espartero included. The search for a monarch was led by Fernando Serrano and Juan Prim, the two military men who had finally forced Isabel to depart. Initially, Leopold of Hohenzollern was chosen and indeed the crown was offered to him, before being rejected for fears of provoking a war between the French and Prussians. [5] Following the rejection of the offer of the crown by Ferdinand of Portugal [6], and the refusal to offer the throne to Isabel's son Alfonso [7], they settled on the burden free shoulders of Amadeus of Savoy, who crucially swore to uphold the newly proclaimed constitution, the first promulgated since that of Cádiz some fifty years earlier.

The young king arrived in January 1870, a man with no experience, thrust head first into the world of Spanish politics, a world which no one ever navigated without first hitting rocks. Fortunately, the young king had a stroke of luck: the general Juan Prim, prime minister and his main supporter and the architect of the new state of affairs had survived an assassination attempt at the entrance of the Cortes. [8]

It would be his first stroke of luck, and judging by the country he found, it wouldn't be the last he need.

BRIEF NOTES

[1] Maria Vittoria del Pozzo, a member of the Piedmontese nobility and heiress to her father's vast fortune. The marriage was roundly rejected by Victor Emmanuel as being of inferior status. She would later marry into the Austrian nobility. IOTL she was the wife of Amadeus.
[2] Princess Marie of the Netherlands, the granddaughter of William I of the Netherlands and Frederick William III of Prussia, making her distantly related to the Prussian king William I.
[3] IOTL Amadeo's wedding day was infamous for the sheer number of misfortunes that befell it including the death of a stationmaster, after he was run over by the couple's honeymoon train. ITTL, the wedding is perfectly normal, with the couple enjoying a honeymoon in the Swiss lakes.
[4] Isabel, would following the failure of Amadeus, the republicans and the Carlists be succeeded by her young son Alfonso XIII who remained until the Second Republic. ITTL she and her line go into exile in France.
[5] Which of course would later all be for nought as war would break out between the two.
[6] Ferdinand had the liberal credentials, but given the chaos his family had been subjected to in the preceding decade, with three of his sons dying from cholera he felt unable to accept the throne.
[7] For fear that he'd be easily influenced by his mother.
[8] Indeed the attempted assassins were never caught, and given the danger of Spanish politics at this time, the suspects ranged from fellow liberals, to republicans and Carlists.

 

[morbidteaparty]

I've always found the potential survival of an Italian monarchy in Spain interesting, so this is something of a thought experiment. I'm not aiming to make it a fully fledged timeline, but we'll see how it goes.

 

[Sceonn]

No idea what's going on, but feeling giddy anyway!!!

 

[LordKalvan]

Interested: we were discussing something similar a few months ago, and the survival of Juan Prim was a condition necessary to give some chances to Amadeus (who was not a genius, neither for good or for evil, and whose interest in politics was to say the least not really developed).
A wife with a strong will would be certainly a big plus, to keep him on his toes.
Let's see how he manages with the Carlist insurrection (which is a given) and the troubles in Cuba

 

[The Merovingian]

Seems well written, I'll keep my eye one this, subscribed

 

[morbidteaparty]

An Outsider Treated As Such: The New King's Arrival and the Great Problems of State

"The new king and his family [1] arrived in a country so beset by turmoil and strife that it had been declared all but ungovernable. The loss of the American Empire, the first in which the sun never set had greatly devastated the country's economy, leaving it poor and desolate on the periphery of Europe. The extreme reaction of Ferdinand VII and the succession of crises which had plagued the country for the majority of the century had created an air of fatalism, one which seeped into the bones of the body politic. High tariffs dogged development, particularly in regards to agriculture with grain imports banned resulting in the eastern provinces having to import at great cost, grain from the peninsula while cheap grain from Italy could have been imported. Poorly planned industrialisation had left the country with industrial resources in the north, but no successful means of exploiting them, leaving the textile industry in Catalonia the sole representative of the modern industries. The lack of a developed railway network, rudimentary roads and rivers difficult to navigate further hampered attempts to modernise the nation.

"It was as if the high mountains and crushing heat had sapped the souls and minds of these people so that they remained solely devoted to one thing: survival." (Quote attributed to Queen Maria of Portugal, King Amadeus's sister after a journey through the Spanish-Portuguese borderlands, though it's veracity has long been doubted.)

Further complicating matters for the young king was the political situation: the provisional government, a delicate mix of radicals, republicans, monarchists and liberals had promulgated a constitution, one which introduced universal male suffrage and other liberal provisions. [2] The election of a foreign king, a outsider removed from the continuously shifting conflicts that shaped Spain's politics and society, had predictably enraged the Carlists, whose claimant the Duke of Madrid [3] would rise up in rebellion, inciting the disaffected provinces to join him. [4] Exacerbating the situation further was the ongoing insurrection in Cuba, an island whose antipathy towards the Spanish state had increased during the last years of Isabel's glorious failure to explode in the year of her deposition. The Cubans, using guerrilla tactics had terrorised the Spanish forces with their use of machete charges: yellow fever was slowly doing the rest. The new monarch and his shaky government were now faced with insurrections on two fronts, economic malaise, a fractured parliament and disjointed society.

Juan Prim, Spanish Prime Minister​

He was saved on one front however: the coalition, as shaky as it was possessed two capable men as leaders. Prim, the more radical of the two was also the young, foreign monarch's greatest supporters established himself as the king's principal advisor and Minister of War in the newly formed government of Francisco Serrano, who from sheer force of will melded together the disparate revolutionary elements into a cohesive (if somewhat unstable government.) [5] However, the king's best asset was perhaps his wife, whose keen intelligence and forceful personality kept the young and often indecisive monarch on his toes. [6] His coronation in Madrid, was low key, with the more important ceremony following within the Cortes, as he swore to uphold the constitution and the rights of his subjects. The ceremony was twice interrupted by republican members of the Democrat Party who jeered whenever the king rose to speak, a situation exacerbated by his poor grasp of Spanish. He and the royal family were greeted with general interest on the streets as his procession passed following both ceremonies, with the young monarch and his family seen as a positive departure from the frumpy tyranny of Queen Isabel. The king would later write in his diary that "the Spanish seem less a people to govern than a charging bull intent on wrecking all in its path. The country seems to be ungovernable."

Whether the king and the loose coalition that supported him would be the matador that stopped the bull was anyone's guess, but the new king knew only one certainty. He was in a situation he was woefully unprepared for." [7]

(Extract from The Trials of King Amadeus: A Biography of the Italian King, (Gianni Rubini, University of Bologna)

BRIEF NOTES
[1] Amadeus and his wife Marie had one son, Phillip (Felipe Alberto Federico Guillermo Maria de Savoy) in 1869, and the Queen was pregnant with the couple's second son Victor (Victor Juan Alejandro Fernando Maria de Savoy) on the date of their coronation. The royal couple would have a further seven children.
[2] Which maintained Catholic primacy while establishing full freedom of worship for all Spanish citizens, and the liberalisation of previous freedom of expression laws.
[3] Who was also a Bourbon claimant to the throne of France.
[4] The Basques, Catalans and Galicians had been increasing angered by the centralisation of the various liberal regimes, while the seizure of church land and property had angered the traditional classes.
[5] Consisting of members of O'Donnell's Liberal Union, Prim's Progressives the Moderates of Narváez and the Democrats of Pi y Margall who had begun to split into monarchist and republican factions.
[6] Indeed the queen, would be viewed by many as the realm's second chief minister such was her influence.
[7] While Rubini's account offers a useful insight into Italian sources and the king's personality his constant bias towards "the great men" of the new monarchy and his refusal to investigate further than the palace leaves his work of somewhat indeterminate value. (Review of The Trials of Amadeus)

Also the name of this post comes from a kickass Don Caballero song, if anyone's interested.

 

[morbidteaparty]

Despite the many problems facing the new foreign king and his government, the country held its first elections since the king's coronation. [1] The constitution had provided an electoral system which divided the country's provinces into 391 voting districts which elected a single MP through two rounds of voting [2], a system also employed in Germany and Italy. With the constitution providing for universal male suffrage [3], the election saw some seventy-two percent of eligible males vote, with the parliamentary coalition of the Liberal Union (Unión Liberal) and the Progressive Party (Partido Progresista) winning a majority of seats.

(Election Results, March 7 1870)

Liberal Union (Unión Liberal)-144 seats out of 391
Progressive Party (Partido Progresista)-91 seats out of 391
Federal Democratic Republican Party (Partido Republicano Democrático Federal)-52 seats out of 391
National Catholic Union (Unión Cathólico Nacional)-51 seats out of 391 [4]
Moderate Liberal Party (Partido Liberal Moderado)-27 seats out 391
Others-17 seats out of 371
Conservative Party (Partido Conservador)-9 seats out of 391

Following the election, and the continuance of the "Constitutional Union" of the Liberal Union and the Progressives as the parties of government, the king asked Prim to form a new cabinet. Prim, after consultation with Serrano formed a cabinet delicately poised between the more radical reformist elements of his party and the more conservative supporters of Serrano. The king himself, after his hesitant introduction in the Cortes, endeavoured [5] to improve his Spanish and in the summer of 1870 undertook a brief tour of the country, making stops in Seville, Cádiz and Barcelona. [6] Such efforts increased his popularity within the wider population, though the government's refusal to abolish tariffs and begin necessary economic reforms caused tensions within the government, which resulted in the resignation of the "Democratic" wing of the Progressive Party led by Manuel Ruiz Zorilla. [6]

The new government, despite its refusal to lift tariffs in order to support the Catalan textile industry did begin to make concessions to industrial interests, with plans to extend the limited railway network by connecting major cities, with further plans to develop a narrow-gauge system to navigate the mountainous terrain that covered much of the country. The plans were ambitious, with most predictions that they would take until the end of the century to be fully complete, hindered further by the decision in 1845 to develop an unusual standard gauge in the country. [7] The government introduced several measures in its first year with the introduction of increased levies on church property, and the formation of a programme of state funded schools to improve general literacy. [8] Internationally, the new government broadly aligned itself with Rome and Berlin, though it enjoyed cordial relations with Paris and London, as well as its neighbours in Lisbon. The country remained neutral during the eruption of war between France and Prussia, and relations between Madrid and Paris remained cordial following Napoleon III's refusal to sanction support for the Carlist insurrection, which adopting guerrilla tactics similar to the Cuban forces, had begun to harass the government forces based in the Basque Country, though the decision to mobilise the army had initially contained it to this area. The Cuban insurrection continued to dog the government, with local Spanish forces adopting brutal tactics in an attempt to suppress the rebellion.

The king and his government had managed to secure his place on the throne, and his outsider status had gradually begun to recede as his grasp of Spanish improved, and his avoidance of alternating parties of government [9] held him in good stead with the majority of parliamentarians. However, the Carlist insurrection, continued economic problems, Cuban uprising and fragile nature of the government ensured that for all his progress, he was still advancing with a hand tied behind his back.

Manuel Ruiz Zorrilla​

BRIEF NOTES

[1] The election was the first to be held under the new constitutional order, with the Provisional Government which had governed since the revolution now confirmed by election as the first government of the Savoyard king.
[2] The new system resulted in the dominance of what became known as the Liberal Compromise with the two main liberal parties benefiting from the 50% vote provision.
[3] For all menaged twenty-five and over.
[4] The National Catholic Union were the parliamentary representatives of the Carlists.
[5] At the insistence of the queen, who viewed the learning of the language as an important facilitator of legitimacy. She also employed Spanish tutors, alongside the Dutch, German and Italian staff employed by the royal family.
[6] Zorilla wished to abolish the tariffs in order to establish Italian grain imports and extend judicial reforms, which while supported by elements in parliament were rejected by the cabinet. The Democratic wing of the Progressives would eventually ally with the Republicans of Francesc Pi y Margall.
[7] The gauge was unusually wide by European standards, and as a result incompatable with the French railway network, which would cause problems with trade.
[8] While the constitution, as a compromise had not abolished the Catholic Church's preferential status, the decision to legalise civil marriage and increase taxes upon church lands would further anger the traditionalist elements who supported the Carlists.
[9] Indeed his commitment to appointing and supporting a government of the majority of parliament, rather than swing between different political elements increased his popularity within the Cortes.

 

[thezerech]

This is really good so far! I'm excited to see what this Savoyard Spain can accomplish. If she can try and catch up with the rest of Europe economically and industrially she might be able to retain her remaining Empire.

 

[The Merovingian]

This looks really promising, I gotta tell you I'm really impressed with this, are you planning on creating a more economically powerful Spain, or will you be butterflying away things like the Philippines revolution? Maybe with a more worthy savoyard monarch we can see a Commonwealth of the Spanish crown?

 

[Bob Gump]

Subscribed

 

[morbidteaparty]

Thank you everyone for your kind words, especially considering this is something of a side project for me. In regards to where I plan to take the timeline I can't really offer you a concrete idea of where Spain will develop with a more stable state. This is because I never write any of my timelines with definite goals, more just to see what would happen if said event (Amadeus of Spain becoming successful, the 1848 revolutions succeeding etc.) had actually happened (insufferably vague I know haha.)

I will say that the Spanish empire and it's fortunes will change, and Spain will see more development. As for the rest of the world, I haven't begun to investigate that far but there will be changes, at some point.

However it goes, it'll be an interesting ride.

 

[morbidteaparty]

The long simmering tensions which had underpinned Franco-Prussian relations since the conclusion of the Austro-Prussian War in 1866, finally exploded into open conflict in 1870 following an incident on the border between the Prussian Rhineland and France [1], though it has long been debated whether the offer of the Spanish Crown to Prince Leopold in 1869 was the final push to war. The French despite efforts to form a broad anti-Prussian alliance with the Austrians and Italians [2], were left isolated by Bismarck's long game of diplomatic chess. The war also caught the French military underprepared, as the reforms introduced in the late 1860s were still ongoing, and they found themselves facing one of Europe's best professional armies.

The French initially advanced into the Saarland, pushing the Prussians back and occupying the city of Saarbrücken. This occupation was swiftly ended upon the discovery of an advancing Prussian army towards the city of Wissembourg which saw the French troops retire to defensive positions. Communications problems effected the French, with MacMahon's attempts to warn the French command of the possibility of an advanced German attack. The battle itself saw Wissembourg encircled by Prussian troops, whose sustained artillery barrage of the town resulted in the death of French commander General Douay. The fighting in the town itself soon fell into vicious street fighting before the town surrendered to the Prussian forces.

​

French troops at an artillery position​

The French were further defeated at Spicheren, due to poor communication and a failure to account for Prussian numerical superiority which resulted in the French abandoning their position on the heights granting the Prussians a tactical victory. The French were also pushed further towards Metz, and while their superior military technology ensured they inflicted heavy casualties upon the German forces, their underestimation of the Prussian Army led them to severely overextend themselves. The successive defeats on the frontier resulted in the French retreating to Metz. After a failed attempt to relieve the siege, in which the French troops were forced back with high casualties. The failure of French forces in the war convinced the emperor, following the arguments of his cousin Prince Napoléon and the Commander of Paris General Trochu, returned to Paris and began the process of suing for peace, with MacMahon remaining in Chalons in command of the last field army. [3]

FORMATION OF THE GERMAN CONFEDERATION: THE TREATY OF BREMEN, OCTOBER 1870

In October 1870, following several weeks of negotiations held after the armistice with France, the Treaty of Bremen was signed between the North German Confederation and the southern states of Baden, Bavaria, Hesse and Württemberg which established the German Confederation, a confederal structure which formed a unified sovereign state, while granting broad autonomies to the individual states. Widespread popular support for the war against France, and the outpouring of national sentiment in support of a unified Germany, overcame some of the political opposition towards confederation amongst the particularists of the southern states. Bismarck, careful not to be seen imposing Prussian dominance on the southern states, established the Confederation as a "federation of equals" headed by the Prussian king as "Federal President". [4] The "Articles of Confederation" established the following:

• A federal parliament based in Berlin was established, directly elected by all men aged 25 and older. The Bundesrat established under the North German Confederation was extended to the southern states. The Chairman of the Council was a position appointed independently from that of the Chancellor. The Bundesrat was granted a legislative veto (which required a majority of vote to pass, thus limiting the potential for the dominance of Prussia which held 17 electoral votes on the council.) The relative impartiality of the Bundesrat was designed to persuade the southern states that the federation would not lead to Prussian dominance of the federal structure to the detriment of the southern states.
• A constitutional court, independent of the federal executive was established to arbitrate disputes between the states and the federal government, as well as the states themselves.
• The states were granted broad autonomy over their internal affairs, with concessions over railways, communications and postage granted to the southern states. The southern states were granted more political autonomy [5] than their northern counterparts had been under the formation of the North German state.

Following the ratification of the confederal articles by the state's delegates the confederation was declared at the end of the October 1870. One of the first acts of the newly established state was to hold peace talks with the French, in neutral Belgium.

THE TREATY OF BRUSSELS: NOVEMBER 1870

The quick end to the war before further humiliation and the quick return to Paris of the emperor defused the potential uprising that had been festering against the empire since the war's start. The military incompetence of the French had left them in a weak bargaining position in regards to the negotiating table, though fears of a punitive peace were swiftly found to be groundless. The treaty consisted of the following provisions:

1. The fortresses of Belfort, Metz and Strasbourg were to be demolished and the French sie of the border fully demilitarised. A small detachment of German troops would oversee the demolitions.
2. German troops, which had occupied Alsace-Lorraine during the armistice would withdraw from the territories and return them to France. [6]
3. France would renounce all claims on the Rhineland and the Saar. Both nations pledged to respect the neutrality of Belgium and Luxembourg.
4. France would pay an annual indemnity of 250,000,000 francs until 1875 for a total of reparation of 1,000,000,000 francs. [7]
5. The German Confederation was officially recognised by France.

The treaty was ratified by both sides in December 1870, officially ending the war. Prussia's short victorious war had proven highly successful...

BRIEF NOTES

[1] The incident has never been fully established, but involved a diplomatic incident following the arrest of a Prussian policeman by French secret police on the border of the Saar and Alsace. The incident provided the necessary spark for one side to take the other's bait.
[2] The Austrians fully desired revenge on the Prussians for the humiliation of Sadowa, but were well aware of the broad anti-French sentiment in the southern states, and refused to back an alliance unless the Italians were involved. The Italians, despite the good relations on a diplomatic level between the two nations, were well aware of the negative public sentiment towards the French for the annexation of Nice and the County of Savoy in 1860, and the continued French military presence in Rome in support of the pope. Because of these domestic considerations, the Italians refused to back any formal or informal alliance.
[3] Napoleon's return to Paris, gradually defused the situation, though the violent atmosphere ensured the continued deployment of national troops in Paris after the end of the war.
[4] As the position was hereditary and linked to the Prussian crown, it was often informally regarded as an imperial crown, though Bismarck aware of southern sentiment ensured it held the more neutral name of Federal President.
[5] The southern states were granted autonomy over business insurance, railways, postal and telegraphic services and were also allowed to keep their military autonomy retaining their own troops, war ministries and military justice system, though these were linked with the broader federal army established as part of the articles of confederation.
[6] The refusal to annex Alsace-Lorraine caused widespread arguments amongst the German government, with the army and nationalist elements desiring its annexation for different ends (securing the Franco-German border, and the return of a "Germanic" people to Germany respectively.)
[7] The indemnity was designed as a series of payments so as not to provoke further French sentiment. The formation of the confederation, and the indemnity from France would kickstart a broad economic boom within the confederation itself.

 

[thezerech]

A very good update. I imagine French revanchisme will still be quite strong though not to OTL levels due to the retention of the French Empire and shorter war.

This has an interesting affect on Germany's actions in regards to world opinion. The province of Alsace was IIRC German majority at that time, and most people in Europe expected Prussia to take the province. The addition of Lorraine was what made world opinion switch to the side of France in believing that Germany's intention's were purely expansionist in nature.

 

[Herr Frage]

A very good update. I imagine French revanchisme will still be quite strong though not to OTL levels due to the retention of the French Empire and shorter war.

Perhaps, or the brevity of war and loss may cause a stabbed in the back or sheer incompetence of government to be a motivating factor bot internally and externally.

I assume Napoleon III will have to concede to more reforms in the wake of this loss for fear of open revolt?

 

[morbidteaparty]

Perhaps, or the brevity of war and loss may cause a stabbed in the back or sheer incompetence of government to be a motivating factor bot internally and externally.

I assume Napoleon III will have to concede to more reforms in the wake of this loss for fear of open revolt?

Napoleon III and his regime will have to concede reforms, though it's unlikely they'll go quite as far as the Third Republic. Napoleon's health is also quite frail at this point, so his eventual death will further complicate matters.

 

[The Merovingian]

So I'm wondering what this new king's impact will be on Spanish Philippines. Will revolutionary fervor develop as it did OTL, or will we see different developments take place?

 

[LordKalvan]

The fortress at Metz was to be demolished, while Alsace (but not the small enclaves in Lorraine held by Prussian forces during the war) was annexed to the German Empire

If the peace treaty is signed in November 1870, there is no German Empire (not yet and most likely will not come: the most likely outcome would be the NCG being transformed into the North German Empire, with the southern German states being in a defensive alliance with it (and obviously in a Customs Union). There is no reason for Bismarck to ask for the annexation of Alsace since the war ended quickly and there were not the budget strains which happened IOTL and forced him to negotiate with the German nationalists: even more to the point, in order to give some stability to the second empire Bismarck cannot afford to force a punitive treaty into the throat of Louis Napoleon.

The demilitarization of the border and the demolition of the fortresses of Metz and Strasbourg together with some reparations (lower than IOTL since the war ended much earlier) would be more than enough.

 

[morbidteaparty]

If the peace treaty is signed in November 1870, there is no German Empire (not yet and most likely will not come: the most likely outcome would be the NCG being transformed into the North German Empire, with the southern German states being in a defensive alliance with it (and obviously in a Customs Union). There is no reason for Bismarck to ask for the annexation of Alsace since the war ended quickly and there were not the budget strains which happened IOTL and forced him to negotiate with the German nationalists: even more to the point, in order to give some stability to the second empire Bismarck cannot afford to force a punitive treaty into the throat of Louis Napoleon.

The demilitarization of the border and the demolition of the fortresses of Metz and Strasbourg together with some reparations (lower than IOTL since the war ended much earlier) would be more than enough.

I think German unification would likely still have happened partly because the southern states (particularly Bavaria) were in severe financial difficulty and the success of the unified force against the French demonstrates the potential of a unified Germany. (Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in historical inevitability but I do feel German unification would likely have happened in the 1870s.)

As for the peace terms, I think you're correct in regards to the demilitarisation and destruction of the forts being sufficient, though the reason I had the Germans annex the area is because i felt it would have provided greater security to the southern states which bordered France. (Also I read somewhere that the Badenese wanted to expand their territory and become elevated to a kingdom: I figured Alsatian integration into the empire and the elevation of Baden to a kingdom would help push the southern states further into the imperial orbit.

That being said if it's too implausible, I'm quite happy to change it. This is a timeline about the Spanish after all, and the main reason I included a post about the Franco-Prussian War is because it was inevitable in and abound to appear somewhere.

 

[morbidteaparty]

So I'm wondering what this new king's impact will be on Spanish Philippines. Will revolutionary fervor develop as it did OTL, or will we see different developments take place?

The new king will have to deal with the Cubans and the Carlists first, given that the two uprisings represent a fairly solid threat to his hold on the crown as well as the Spanish state. The Philippines are a faily low priority at the moment, but I can promise that there will be different developments.

 

[Kurt_Steiner]

I hereby join this wonderful thread.