You’re right, the word “Palestine” IIRC originally derives from the Phillistines. Still, my point still stands that some form of “Syria” or “Palestine” is a likely name for the region.
A Light Shines East: The World of a Christian Persia
- Thread starter Merovingian
- Start date
danteheadman
Banned
Judea and Israel are Jewish specific endonyms for the land. It is what it is. Unless a Jew gets to name it, it's probably not going to be named that.
Yeah I know I didn't think it would happen I read OPs reasoning and I understand now.
Yes the story of Esther would resonate a lot with a Christianised Persian Empire and any Jewish well treated minosrity.
So something worth thinking about is that after the Arab conquests happen is that the 'Palmyrian' Empire, now based in Byzantium as it's new capital because of it's excellent location, will be having a far changed dynamic with the Kingdom of Armenia. As Armenia was never divided and is still the Kingdom of Armenia The Palmyrian Empire, reduced to OTL Rhomania's borders after the Arab conquests of the levant and Egypt, will likely be far less able to ensure Armenia is a vassal. Honestly I could see Armenia going from "vassal of th Palmyrian superpower" to becoming a vassal of the new Arabic Empire if it could manage. Them being Zoroastrian would at least give them a bit more of a shot compared to most faiths with Christianity ITTL having a sort of dhimnihood like OTL Islam had. Plus I doubt the Arabic Empire would want to conquer the Armenian Mountain range if they can have a vassal holding the stragetic, but difficult to control, mountains for them.
And honestly even after the Arabic Empire falls I can't see ITTL Armenia ever becoming Palmyrian Empire's vassal again since they don't retake their old, now Christianized, territories in the Levant and Egypt. Palmyrian Empire is now a Great Power in the region instead of the superpower it once was and they lack the OTL comonality of religion as both Christians that helped bring OTL Armenia back into the Roman fold when Rhomania reestablished their ties with Armenia.
Actually I wonder, if their are any equilavents of the 717 siege of Constantinople by the Arabic Empire, how Byzantium will hold. The city will lack all of the major defenses OTL Constantinople built up before the Arab invasions (no Theodosian Walls, lacking the chains of the Golden Horn, lacking the great cisterns and the Valernian Aqueduct most likely) and it was those defenses that allowed Constantinople to hold off any siege up to 1204. And they wouldn't had been built beforehand because Byzantium would had been a relatively minor city compared to the capital of the empire that was Constantinople and after they do move the capital there they won't exactly have the recourses needed to create amongst the greatest defenses of the world for the next thousand years.
And honestly even after the Arabic Empire falls I can't see ITTL Armenia ever becoming Palmyrian Empire's vassal again since they don't retake their old, now Christianized, territories in the Levant and Egypt. Palmyrian Empire is now a Great Power in the region instead of the superpower it once was and they lack the OTL comonality of religion as both Christians that helped bring OTL Armenia back into the Roman fold when Rhomania reestablished their ties with Armenia.
Actually I wonder, if their are any equilavents of the 717 siege of Constantinople by the Arabic Empire, how Byzantium will hold. The city will lack all of the major defenses OTL Constantinople built up before the Arab invasions (no Theodosian Walls, lacking the chains of the Golden Horn, lacking the great cisterns and the Valernian Aqueduct most likely) and it was those defenses that allowed Constantinople to hold off any siege up to 1204. And they wouldn't had been built beforehand because Byzantium would had been a relatively minor city compared to the capital of the empire that was Constantinople and after they do move the capital there they won't exactly have the recourses needed to create amongst the greatest defenses of the world for the next thousand years.
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I have plans for Armenia, but you’re right that they won’t be a Palmyrene vassal for much longer after the Arab conquests.
Maybe a nation that controls Bengal could become a major power in the ALT age of colonialism
I’ve had an idea that some Indian state could colonize parts of Australia ITTL, although I haven’t decided yet whether or not it will happen.
Love this TL! I am a religious studies nerd, so I am so so happy to see one that really digs in deep to the nuances of religion.
I got an idea for you. What if Mali and Morocco (or Spain) both become the Spain and Portugal of this world discovering Latin America? Mali can land in Brazil while Morocco can land in the Caribbean. You could have Vinland survive too.
Spain makes sense as a colonial power, although I could see some North African state as a sort of Portugal-equivalent. Mali, however, has no reason to colonize America; why colonize when you’re already connected to trade routes and comparatively wealthy at home? Vinland surviving is definitely a possibility.
You know something I thought of/realized...The Battle of Carrhae is probably going to take a position similar to the Battle of Thermopylae has in our OTL culture. In that it'd be seen as a decisive battle that insured that the predessecors of their culture weren't overwhelmed by an invading force. With the added bonus of it being a victory and a war against the people that ITTL Persianate Christendom sees as their great enemy historically for the cultural impact it'd have for ITTL Christendom writers and authors.
Especially as it's honestly a brilliant victory.
(That does make me wonder if the Carthagianian Empire has it's reputation rehabilitated somewhat by ITTL Iberians and people of North Africa post Christianization due to the incredibly negative reputation ITTL Rome has for ITTL Christendom. As Carthage was Rome's greatest enemy before Persia and came so close to ending the Roman Republic/Empire when it was still rising as a power.)
Especially as it's honestly a brilliant victory.
(That does make me wonder if the Carthagianian Empire has it's reputation rehabilitated somewhat by ITTL Iberians and people of North Africa post Christianization due to the incredibly negative reputation ITTL Rome has for ITTL Christendom. As Carthage was Rome's greatest enemy before Persia and came so close to ending the Roman Republic/Empire when it was still rising as a power.)
Caesar's assassination might also be seen as God striking down Caesar to spare Persia from yet another invader, one much more dangerous than Crassus, while also displaying his power over even the greatest of the romans
Especially with how the Carthaginians were an offshoot of the Phoenicians as well.
I could see that. The Roman civil wars, when they are discussed at all, probably have historically a at least sort of schadenfreude element on how they're viewed by ITTL Christian writers in a sort of "God's punishment for their sins" sort of way. The fall of the Selucids to the Parthians almost certainly will be seen as "God punishing the Hellenistic Pagan descendants of the 'Accursed (Alexander the Great'" ITTL Christendom I imagine. As whilst the Parthians were still 'pagans', they were from what I understand mostly worshippers of the Mesopotamian Pantheon with Zoroastrian syncretized elements
Still it's quite in contrast of OTL where from what I understand Julius Caesar was beloved in Medieval and Reneisance Western Europe from how Brutus and Cassius for example were handled in Dante's Inferno...
I think Caesar himself might still be seen with some admiration
Like he'd still be likely portrayed as best roman.tm due to the fact the romans would think of him as such(at least for a time) and he wouldnt come with the stigma of actually having pillaged Persia(like Alexander & Trajan) but still be seen as a guy who might have had God not stopped him
That and the fact his death would come by the hands of traitors, much like Judas, would create some kind of sympathy for him still
Though rather than ponder somberly "If only he hadnt been assassinated" I think the persians would think with pity "if he had been born here things might have been better for him"
You know, you right. People would remember the great general Surena and the brave 10,000 Parthians who held off the Roman onslaught and ensured the survivor of Persian civilization.
If Augustine is to be believed, Punic was still fairly widely spoken in North Africa during the late Roman Empire. It’s possibly that once the Arabs come and leave and Christianized the region, they leave a Punic-speaking, Christian successor state that views itself as a descendant of the old Carthaginian Empire. Since the Carthaginians were Phoenicians, this means that they were an extension of ancient Near Eastern civilization(which TTL’s Christendom romanticizes and glorifies), and they almost beat the Romans, I imagine that they’d be viewed quite fondly with an element of “if only they had emerged victorious.”
This seems pretty likely. Maybe TTL’s Christendom views Caesar the same way that OTL Medieval Europe viewed Saladin IOTL; he was a pagan from their enemy civilization, but he was a great leader nonetheless and should be given some begrudging respect.