A Light Shines East: The World of a Christian Persia

[Aluma]

So in that version God just keeps respawning instead of doing it only once with a three days lag

 

[Merovingian]

Huh, that's a rather unique sect. Reminds me a bit of the Baha'i.

That's because it is Baha'i theology & cosmology almost exactly.

I actually wasn’t really thinking of the Baha’is when I made this little sect, the part where it incorporates various prophets from other religions was inspired by Manichaeism and the rest was inspired by groups like the Khurramites, Mazdakites, etc. Although now that you mention it, I can see the similarities.

 

[danteheadman]

I actually wasn’t really thinking of the Baha’is when I made this little sect, the part where it incorporates various prophets from other religions was inspired by Manichaeism and the rest was inspired by groups like the Khurramites, Mazdakites, etc. Although now that you mention it, I can see the similarities.

Well it is. And it's interesting that your looking at Zoroastrian/ Manichaeism theology and OTL minority Islamic sects to develop Babak's sect and stumbling onto Baha'i theology almost precisely is fascinating! It supports a pet theory of mine: that Baha'i is an Abarahamic superstructure layered on top of an undercurrent of ancient Iranic traditional spiritual beliefs, in the same way that Christianity is an Abrahamic superstructure on top of ancient Hellenic traditional spiritual beliefs.

While Khosrau‘s movement claimed to be Christian, he taught numerous doctrines in conflict with mainstream Christian theology such as the transmigration of souls, a cyclical view of the world, and a dualistic cosmology

Zoroastrian theology by definition.

According to Babak, God had incarnated himself in Adam, who had reincarnated various times throughout history. Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, the Buddha, Krishna, Laozi, Confucius, Socrates, Jesus, and now Babak were all “incarnations of god[1].” In addition, Babak identified another line of reincarnations which included Elijah, John the Baptist, and Khosrau which was supposed to “reveal unto the world the coming of the next incarnation.” Babak preached that the souls of humanity originated from within God, and could return to Him by following the teachings of His various incarnations.

Compare with:

Baháʼí teachings state that God is too great for humans to fully comprehend, and based on them, humans cannot create a complete and accurate image of God by themselves. Therefore, human understanding of God is achieved through the recognition of the person of the Manifestation and through the understanding of his revelations via his Manifestations. . . . Baháʼí notions of progressive religious revelation result in their accepting the validity of the well known religions of the world, whose founders and central figures are seen as Manifestations of God. Religious history is interpreted as a series of dispensations, where each manifestation brings a somewhat broader and more advanced revelation that is rendered as a text of scripture and passed on through history with greater or lesser reliability but at least true in substance, suited for the time and place in which it was expressed. . . .

And:

The Baháʼí teachings state that religion has been revealed progressively from the same God through different prophets/messengers, who at different times through history and in different locations come to provide the teachings of God. In this way the Baháʼí teachings see that religion has the same foundation, and that the various religions are "different stages in the eternal history and constant evolution of one religion". . . . The Manifestations of God are taught to be "one and the same", and in their relationship to one another have both the station of unity and the station of distinction. In this sense, the Manifestations of God all fulfill the same purpose and perform the same function by mediating between God and creation. . . . There is no definitive list of Manifestations of God, but Baháʼu'lláh and ʻAbdu'l-Bahá referred to several personages as Manifestations; they include Adam, Noah, Krishna, Moses, Abraham, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad. The Báb, as well as Baháʼu'lláh, were included in this definition.

Also also: in the same way that Khosrau is likened to Elijah and John, the Báb is likened to Elijah and John.
___
Although: how would Babak here know about Laozi and Confucius? China is pretty far from Persia, and those individuals' ideas & identities aren't really what traveled west along the Silk Road for people like Babak to pick up along the way.

 

[Aluma]

China and Persia were actually business partners for thousands of years, like the parthians were the thing standing in the way of the chinese dynasties and Rome from contacting each other, so I think him knowing vaguely about Confucius & Laozi is possible
Though Im also skeptical of them being given that much importance

 

[Merovingian]

Although: how would Babak here know about Laozi and Confucius? China is pretty far from Persia, and those individuals' ideas & identities aren't really what traveled west along the Silk Road for people like Babak to pick up along the way.

China and Persia were actually business partners for thousands of years, like the parthians were the thing standing in the way of the chinese dynasties and Rome from contacting each other, so I think him knowing vaguely about Confucius & Laozi is possible
Though Im also skeptical of them being given that much importance

Babak travelled along the Silk Road for a while before returning to Persia to preach his religion. During his travels, he tried to learn more about the local religions and compare them with his own, incorporating aspects that he liked.

 

[Gwyndolin]

Millenarian religious movements rooted in Iranian civilization are always oh so interesting in the grand scheme of history. And a thought for the future, but do you have any idea of what might be cooking in east Africa in the future of the TL? I probably need to reread the TL but the isles of Zanzibar were such a confluence of Arab, Indian, and African trade links that I think it’s relatively underutilized when it comes to new social & political developments in Alt history writing.

 

[Merovingian]

Millenarian religious movements rooted in Iranian civilization are always oh so interesting in the grand scheme of history. And a thought for the future, but do you have any idea of what might be cooking in east Africa in the future of the TL? I probably need to reread the TL but the isles of Zanzibar were such a confluence of Arab, Indian, and African trade links that I think it’s relatively underutilized when it comes to new social & political developments in Alt history writing.

I will definitely be incorporating the East African coast ITTL. Not to spoil too much but that same conversion of Arab, Persian, African, and Indian culture will occur ITTL.

 

[danteheadman]

Not to spoil too much but that same conversion of Arab, Persian, African, and Indian culture will occur ITTL.

Nice

 

[Chillvillain]

How is art developing in this world? A lot of Arab art in our world is nonrepresentational, in part due to the rules about portraying Allah or Muhammad but it does not seem like Ebionitism and Apostilism have these rules. So is representative art more common in the Arab world?

 

[danteheadman]

Oh man I almost forgot about this AH. @Merovingian your work is good and I'm looking forward to more!

 

[Merovingian]

How is art developing in this world? A lot of Arab art in our world is nonrepresentational, in part due to the rules about portraying Allah or Muhammad but it does not seem like Ebionitism and Apostilism have these rules. So is representative art more common in the Arab world?

TTL’s Christianity has a fairly strong taboo against representing God the Father as human, with most people using either a faravahar or the word “God” in Aramaic. These rules do not apply to Jesus, but Apostolic Christians usually depict him with his face veiled, due to their belief that Jesus was divine. Depictions of the resurrected Christ have even stricter rules, with most simply using the Aramaic word “Yeshua.” The Holy Spirit is usually portrayed as divine light emanating from a faravahar or Aramaic word representing God. However, these iconoclastic tendencies only apply to that which is considered divine. Various saints and biblical figures are portrayed without any sort of iconoclasm attached, to say nothing of ordinary people, animals, inanimate objects, and so forth. The artistic styles of TTL’s Christendom are fairly similar to OTL Sassanid art.

 

[danteheadman]

TTL’s Christianity has a fairly strong taboo against representing God the Father as human, with most people using either a faravahar or the word “God” in Aramaic. These rules do not apply to Jesus, but Apostolic Christians usually depict him with his face veiled, due to their belief that Jesus was divine. Depictions of the resurrected Christ have even stricter rules, with most simply using the Aramaic word “Yeshua.” The Holy Spirit is usually portrayed as divine light emanating from a faravahar or Aramaic word representing God. However, these iconoclastic tendencies only apply to that which is considered divine. Various saints and biblical figures are portrayed without any sort of iconoclasm attached, to say nothing of ordinary people, animals, inanimate objects, and so forth. The artistic styles of TTL’s Christendom are fairly similar to OTL Sassanid art.

Is the predominant symbol of Christianity ITTL a faravahar, a cross, a crosss with a faravahar on it, or something else?

 

[Merovingian]

Is the predominant symbol of Christianity ITTL a faravahar, a cross, a crosss with a faravahar on it, or something else?

A cross. The faravahar and other Zoroastrian symbols are sometimes used for the same reason that OTL Christianity sometimes uses pagan symbols without realizing it. That said, it’s mostly just the Apostolics who use the faravahar to represent god; Ebionites use the Aramaic word “Elah/Elaha” meaning “God.”

 

[Zireael]

Uh, can someone link/explain what a faravahar is?

 

[LordSamarkand]

Uh, can someone link/explain what a faravahar is?

Wikiwand - Faravahar

The Faravahar , also known as the Foruhar or the Farre Kiyâni , is one of the best-known symbols of Zoroastrianism, an Iranian religion. There are various interpretations of what the Faravahar symbolizes, and there is no concrete universal consensus on its meaning. However, it is commonly...

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